Now what about meditation? I get the idea but it seems hard to sit and concentrate on nothing, without trying to concentrate on nothing.
This is why the 'intentional' practice of meditation comes first, to train your mind so that you can eventually sit in the right way. It's hard for most people to just do what's required without some prior training, but that's not to say it can't be done. Bear in mind too that the quotes I use, and description of meditation, above, is from a higher level and what they describe doesn't mean learning to concentrate on nothing. Just a quick look at what the first type of meditation you would become involved in would entail: What is meditation? A ‘correct’ meditative state isn’t a trance or a deep disconnection from the outside world - rather it’s a state of natural, calm awareness, where you're still alert, but totally relaxed. Your attention might rest on an object or an idea, or just a sense of being here and now - without judgement or analysis. Meditators aren’t trying to stop their thoughts and sit blankly, but instead learn to redirect their attention onto one idea and have it stay there, rather than let it wander from thought to thought, in the way that it usually does. You can choose to place your attention on any perception at all as a means of meditation: your breathing, a pebble, a stick in the ground, imagined spheres of light, sounds, touch – if it can be held in the mind, it can be used as a focal point for your awareness. Think of it as like having a conversation with someone in a room where a lot of people are talking at the same time - it’s relatively easy for you to tune out the voices you don’t want to hear in favour of the one you do. The other voices are still there, but they’re not at the centre of your attention and don’t get in the way of your conversation any more. In exactly the same way, meditators learn to keep their attention on one thing, disregarding distractions. It's important to understand that we aren't trying to stop thoughts, waiting like a sentry for them to appear so that we can cut them down. If we did this we'd spend all our time waiting for them to ocurr instead of meditating. The more closely you can stay aware of your chosen object, the less that extraneous thoughts will bother you, and eventually they'll slow to a point where they don't disturb your attention at all. Though in some meditational books the word ‘concentration’ is used to signify what you’re doing at this stage, that isn’t really an ideal description. Concentration brings to mind images of being tightly aware of something, whereas in meditation you're aware of the object of your meditation in a natural, alert way, with no stress or tension whatsoever. Better to think of the awareness you are hoping to create as a simple, natural state of continual unbroken enjoyment of the focal object. Meditation is also supported by a couple of other 'methods' that add its effectiveness meditation, and whcih also help make life much more enjoyable in their own right. Mindfulness and metta are two such practices, but deep relaxation is also very important too - which should be sought before meditation, not through it. MelT
Thanks - though I must apologise for the generalisations I'm making here. Jodo Shinsu is an interesting form, I see how you could move towards Zen from it. Do you want to talk more about it here if you get time? MelT
I still think about what you said that one day about the state of mind in meditation- that it should be as if you are walking through the countryside on a beautiful spring day and you look up and see a rainbow. That still strikes a cord with me when anything beautiful comes into my view or I think a beautiful thought. I just watch it and appreciate it without anything interfering, like holding onto the beauty except not with a closed fist, more like a ladybug on your hand, holding it and examining it. That one statement really helped me see the potential in just taking a step back and saying "wow, I have nothing to say but wow'
This is exactly it, just a bare appreciation that's without judgement or analysis of what you're experiencing. Staying within that is, to some extent, where all other contrived methods are trying to take you. In the moment, relaxed, happy and naturally aware (ie, without contrivance). I'm glad you felt it One word heard is worth a million words spoken. MelT
Sure I'll put in my two cents. You seem to have more technical knowledge of the religion than I do but I'll try to answer everything the best I can.
Zen poetry on "No-Mind" by Ryokan The flower invites the butterfly with no-mind; The butterfly visits the flower with no-mind. The flower opens, the butterfly comes; The butterfly comes, the flower opens. I don't know others, Others don't know me. By not-knowing we follow nature's course. The Stone Mind Hogen, a Chinese Zen teacher, lived alone in a small temple in the country. One day four traveling monks appeared and asked if they might make a fire in his yard to warm themselves. While they were building the fire, Hogen heard them arguing about subjectivity and objectivity. He joined them and said: "There is a big stone. Do you consider it to be inside or outside your mind?" One of the monks replied: "From the Buddhist viewpoint everything is an objectification of mind, so I would say that the stone is inside my mind." "Your head must feel very heavy," observed Hogen, "if you are carrying around a stone like that in your mind."
Good post Does anyone want to take a shot at understanding what the meaning of the zen story is? Some people can instictively get these things sometimes and it would be interesting to see if anyone gets it. It'll help if you've read a couple of the things from above. Just for interest sake, I'm not gong to ridicule anyone's ideas. MelT
dude haven't u seen the Simpson's! Buddhists are able to be any religion they want, but yet some of the religions they are don't contradict with Buddhism and the religion tells them to choose Buddhism or the other.
What i said was if you are Buddhist you are still able to be like Christian, but the Christian church would tell you that you could not be both but at the same time the Buddhists will not care.
From reading the poem a few posts up I'm gonna say it's about your "gut" feelings (instincts), and...I'll call it going with what goes?
Kind of. We'd say that, as we'rea philosophy and not a religion, our moral view can be incorporated into any other religion, as has happened. But, there's only so far we could become incorporated into christianity as we don't believe in a god, the soul, etc. So, on the surface the two might seem to mix well, but only with 'entry level' Buddhism, and not the deeper things that come later. MelT
MelT, the post about emptiness kinda explained thoughts I've had that I could never really put into words. Language makes thinking hard as shit. I'm loving this post, and I think I need to hit up the library...
Buddhism is a religion, imo. It can be a philosopy, but once you start talking about meditation and enlightenment, it becomes a definitive religion in practice, according to science, anyway.
Throw away anything you think you know about Buddhism, whether it be a definition defined by science or religion, and just look at it in a different light. None of that matters.
I think the majority of buddhists would disagree with you Meditation can be done without an aim, so meditating doesn't make it a religious philosophy. As we have no god, no overall aim (nobody has to try to meditate or become enlightened in Buddhism, only a small proportion do go that way). Religion relies heavily on an idea of reaching a spiritual realm and of transcending this reality, in Buddhism everything is about recognising this reality. Religion promises heaven, Buddhism doesn't. Religion is about worship of a diety, few worship Buddha, as he took great pains in his life to make sure that this would never happen. Religion also has dogma and fixed beliefs, Buddhism's purpose is to lose those from day one. We perform rituals not to deities or god, but to prepare our minds. We don't perform devotional duties as that would be a waste of time and effort when we could be helping people other than hoping for things for ourselves. It's very hard to find anything that is truly religion like about Buddhism except our moral code - which people try to adhere to, but if they don't they aren't classed as sinners or lesser Buddhists. The rules are all self-imposed, and aren't drummed into students as things they must do. Religion is: <TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>1.</TD><TD vAlign=top>a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> MelT