Is everything determined?

Discussion in 'Science and Nature' started by SuperHaze12, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Because of physics we can figure out all the mysteries of the universe , but this only applies if we know how to apply it or if we have discovered a certain law yet.
    Newtons laws of motion imply that if we know an initial state of an object we can determine the outcome. Because the universe has a beginning this means the outcome has already been determined. If you are a active follower of science you also should know about schrodinger's cat. Lets say you put a cat in a bunker with some unstable gun powder that has a 50/50 chance of blowing up in the next minute. The cat either lives or dies. If you were to conduct this experiment over and over thousands of times the cat would live half the time and the other half he would die. Before we look in the bunker,the cat is in a super position where both possibilities are true. our act of looking in the bunker causes nature to collapse in on its self to pick a decision. so what about the cats perspective? He either sees the explosion or he doesnt, the out come of the experiment is entangled. So who is looking in on us to make nature collapse in on its self? Or are both realities true in a separate multiverse? Yes multiverses are a possibility. Because humans have free will it causes a lot of uncertainty in the universe making it split and both realities are happening at the same time. you just happen to live in this reality. Or is there a higher being that is watching in on us making reality collapse in on its self? (Just to amuse the religious people out there). I dont believe this is the case but science cant disprove it.
    So in short, is everything determined? Yes it is but there are many realities that happen at the same time so the randomness of what has been determined cannot be determined.
     
  2. #2 IfImoffpleasecorrect, Nov 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2015
    Nothing is determined. The universe keeps expending/evolving/contaminated, and we can't do a damn thing about it, like we can't not get dirty. Its a big puddle of bacteria
     
  3. I believe in absolute determinism. I don't believe in the multiverse theory, though.

     
  4. I am very proud to be one of those "religious" people you're kindly appeasing in your post and YES, I believe in a higher power...God Almighty. He created the universe and we all owe our very existence to him. My Bible, a proven book of history, tells me that He set this planet in motion and is in total control of it's outcome. Science is a beautiful thing and, in my opinion, only backs up the existence of a creator. Otherwise, after all these years and advances in technology, science would have found a way to prove that He doesn't exist. Scientists are now saying they believe the planet, Mars, suffered cataclysmic floods leaving deep canyons on the planet....yet the same scientists refuse to believe that the same fate occurred on this planet thousands of years ago.....TOTALLY CONFUSING. Sorry friends, but the theory that human life developed from a tadpole is just ridiculous. If man evolved in this way, then why were there not other species who evolved to the same level of complexity and at the same rate? Because that's not how we got here. God created Adam and then Eve and we all are descendants of their lineage in some way. But all in all, the one thing that I know is that his spirit lives within me and because of his willingness to sacrifice his life for me on the cross, I carry him with me in my heart daily and I am at peace in my spirit and am looking forward to what is in store after this life is over. Like I said above, science is a wonderful thing but I would not stake eternity on it! Blessings guys! TWW
     
  5. Well some, such as myself, would argue that the universe had no beginning. Odd concept for many to grasp, but the idea that there had to be a beginning comes from the need to make sense of everything and religion. Created this concept that the universe was created and therefore had a beginning.. and the big bang theory is science fighting fire with fire, fighting creation point with creation point. Thing is, if the big bang is accurate, it still can't be said to be the beginning because whatever went into the big bang had to exist before the big bang. So in theory, even if all our actions are determined.. they can never be determined 100% because you must know the initial conditions in order to determine in full. If the universe is infinite and always existed infinitely, there will always be a level of random, unpredictable actions taking place.. even if it is a minute amount.

    But I do believe we, and animals in general, have a form of free will. Not like the free will from having a soul, I don't believe in the soul, but free will given to us by our evolution. It needed to evolve in life because if every choice was predetermined, there would be too many instances where 2 or more choices have equal influence and there needs to be a biological mechanism in place allowing a choice to be made them.
     
  6. In short, no. We're just bits of stardust floating in the enormity of the universe, total chaos. In my stoned state I can answer all the questions about life, death, consciousness. Sober, we're here by some cosmic joke, we do whatever the fuck we want, die without doing the fuck we want. Oh, and I don't think math will be the way we come to understand the universe. That's one of my stoned thoughts too. What if it just fucking is and we're struggling to make sense of it all? I know our planet is fucked, some way some how it's going to go tits up, we have to get the fuck out before it does if we're to carry on our peeps. Maybe that doesn't matter too...
     
  7. i cant agree about total chaos. bacteria multiply and its a form of life. how chaotic is that?
     
  8. Not from a tadpole but a tiny atom that was combined with a carbon base which with a carbon base you can create everything you need for life.as for the higher being there is the possibility i will but a big man in a sky that made the universe in 7 days kinda sounds very unlikely to me mainly because the process of creating these things takes millions of years 14 billion years today actually. But thats just my opinion
     
  9. well its constantly changing yes, but whos to say that these changes youre experiencing where not determined? Charels darwins evolution is true but this doesnt disprove determinism.
     
  10. well it was just my way of interpreting the lose ends of these theorys. I thought that they compliment each other in a very simple fashion that seems natural.
     
  11. that works

     
  12. actually not very odd at all the big bounce theory is a very uplifting scenerio. The rate of expansion of the universe just keeps going till one day it reverses and it starts to contract until all the black hole in the universe combine to make a giant black hole that contains the mass of the universe and devours everything including its self. This theory states that this has happened many times over billions of years with no absolute beginning and no absolute end.
     
  13. This is not the subforum for you.
     
  14. We differ in our interpretations of the loose ends. I don't like multiverses in conjunction with determinism, because it makes me feel - if it's determined, then it's happening one way, and one way only. If it happens in multiple ways, then I don't view it as determined because then another possibility is taking place at the same time. That gives me some cognitive dissonance I have yet to overcome.

    I can see how multiple possibilities can be simultaneously determined, but it just doesn't jive with me. :smoke:
     
  15. The universal theory that I stand behind is that it is infinite.. and infinite in all aspects. Size, distance, amount of energy and mass, types of energies, age.. pretty much any quality you can think of for the universe, it is infinite. Over the years I realized that in a truly infinite universe, there is no need for things like the big bang followed by a big crunch. It has always existed with no beginning.. circling back to the determinism. It is impossible to fully determine something if there was no beginning. You can get close with your predictions, but the closest you'll even get is 99.9999% accuracy.. leaving the rest up for an indetermined event to randomly happen.
     
  16. in a infinite universe there would be no expanding of the universe, which we all know that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. how would the universe start expanding if there was no big bang to initiate it?
     
  17. well see the way I look at it is everything is determined by passed actions and if there are infinite universes then the small diffrences start to add up due to the unpredicability of human behavior. it is impossible for there to be infinite universes that are parallel and everything to be the same in all of them because they were all initiated in different ways.
     


  18. If the universe truly is infinite, it can expand within itself because it is infinite. There would literally be no end to it.. so there would be no boundary to keep it from expanding. It is a misconception that the rate of expansion is accelerating.. possibly. The idea that the universe's rate of expansion is accelerating is due to the nature of the expansion itself. The Hubble constant is the measurement of the rate of expansion.. and our most up-to-date reading is 67ish km/sec per megaparsec. Which means that if an object is 326 million light years away for you, the space between you is growing at a rate of 67 km/sec. If an object is 652 (326 x 2) million light years away, the object will be moving away from you at 134 (67 x 2) km/sec. At 8.5 billion (326 x 26) light years away.. it'll be moving away from you at a rate of 1,742 km/sec (67 x 26). When we gaze out into the cosmos, we see the cumulative effect from the expansion of the universe. The further you look out, the faster those objects will be expanding away from us. The reason I said possibly a misconception is because I am sure the rate of the expansion of the universe fluctuates. With an infinite universe, it's just raw chaos at the root of it's order.. so nothing ever stays the same.


    Slightly long story short, the accelerating rate of the expansion of the universe is relative to us..

     
  19. #19 SuperHaze12, Nov 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2015
    so you're telling me that the universe expands with in its self? But if its truely infinite then wouldnt that mean it cant expand anymore because there is no greater number then infinity... im sorry im not trying to argue with you im just having a bit of a hard time understanding. The expansion is relative to us? So that means we could say that we are the center of the universe cause we are observing its expansion?
     
  20. Infinity isn't a number, it's an attempt to visualize something that is infinite even though it would be impossible to fully take in.. and yes, if it is infinite, it would be expanding within itself. I mean, you could even just look at it as infinitely expanding and since it is infinite, there would be no boundary because no matter how far you travel, there is the universe. That is what it means for something to be infinite, it never ends.


    No, you cannot say that we are the center. The expansion is happening throughout the universe, so no matter what direction you look.. you'll see the universe expanding. Thing is, since it is happening all over.. no matter what galaxy you are in, you will always appear to be in the center. Right now, a galaxy 10 billion lights years away looks like it is moving away from us at an insane speed.. but if you could somehow travel to that galaxy, our galaxy would appear to be moving away from that galaxy at an insane speed. No matter what galaxy you pick, it would always appear to be in the center of the universe from that relative point of view.. with the universe expanding away from it at a faster rate the further they look out.

     

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