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Maximum potency of canna-oil?

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by lambgabriel, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. Hey y'all!
    I am making canna-oil with vaped weed, vaped kief and vaped hash. I am using both the wait method and the heat method. Now I think that the oil absorbed most of the thc/cbn/cbd so I was wondering if I could still make it more potent. I want the dankest, most potent batch of brownies that I can so what is the maximum potency of canna-oil? How much thc can the oil absorb? Thanks guys


     
  2. Lambagabriel, how much TCH can the oil absorb is the $64,000 question. These things require testing which for individuals can get expensive. I don't know the best method for using avb, vaped kief and hash. Check out Another Tincture Thread by PsychedelicSam. It's a daunting thread- quite long, but there is an index in the beginning. The testing conclusions come
    further down In
    the last twenty pages or less. I would suggest making a tincture with all your material (recipe in PSam's thread) and then doing a solvent transfer. Basically you put your green dragon into your oil and then cook the alcohol off. That is the best way I know to get around physical saturation points, i.e., you have more material than you can cover with the amount of oil you want to use and the best way to increase the concentration of your starting materials. Good luck, keep us posted, please.
    Also, in Sam's thread, since it is so long people don't mind answering questions.
     
  3. Thank you Joker! I was thinking of making it more potent by replacing all the vaped hash,weed,kief that is in my oil and replace it with more new vaped hash,weed,kief and doing that over and over to get the most potent oil. But where does the oil start to not absorb anymore thc? I want a single bite of my brownie to send me to the moon. Is there a stopping point where the oil stops to absorb thc?
     
  4. If you want "the most potent brownies ever" then don't use already-vaped.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. What do you mean? Vaped hash is still potent and I am also using regular hash and kief. Im basically replacing shit that has already been absorbed by new stuff to be absorbed. What I am asking is when does the oil stop absorbing thc all together.
     
  6. Puddlegum dont comment if you cant move this thread forward.
     
  7. #7 puddleglum, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2015
    I eat ABV edibles almost every day and can tell you from personal experience they are much lower in THC:CBD ratio than edibles made with fresh unvaped material, resulting in a sleepytime effect. If you don't want my advice then please feel free to ignore me, but you are not a moderator on this forum and don't get to censor me. Maybe my posts will be helpful to others who read this thread. Anyway, Joker already gave you the best advice in post #2. [​IMG]
     
  8. No one has answered my question though... is there a maximum potency that cannaoil can have??
     
  9. #9 lambgabriel, Oct 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
    That is, when should I stop replacing old stuff with new stuff in my oil. When do I know when there is no room for canna oil to absorb more thc. It doesn't matter if its vaped or decarbed weed I am doing both.
     
  10. Lambgabriel, you're not listening. No one knows. Do you have the money to do testing? Have you bothered to Google the matter for other opinions? All they will be is opinions. No one knows the maximum capacity of oil to absorb thc. You can do the legwork and tell the rest of us.
     
  11. Alright man I will do the testing!
     
  12. #12 PatrickXy6dC, Oct 21, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
    Now the big question everyone wants to know is how much THC can be absorbed before coconut oil is fully saturated. Nobody seems to have any clue as to a scientific formula to figure this out. People say 1:3, 1:4, etc ratios of bud to oil (oz to lbs). I've thought long and hard about this and was thinking that if you know the THC and CBD percentage of the bud your using you could have a general idea of the weight of THC and CBD's in the bud. Example: 1 oz of bud with a 15% THC content and a 5% CBD content would mean that you have 4.2g THC and 1.4g CBD's. With this theory we have a total of 5.6g of goodness to absorb into our coconut oil. Assuming that 1g of coconut oil's saturated fat will hold 1g of THC evenly and coconut oil has around 13g of saturated fat per serving you could use a half serving (maybe a little more give or take sense I know there's more then just the THC and CBDs in weed) and be able to get the most potent oil possible no mater the bud your using. I specifically want to know about using coconut oil with buds. I plan to infuse using about an oz and want to use as little oil as possible to get the strongest potency I can. I'm hoping this will be a good place to start in figuring out a formula that can be used to accurately control how potent our canna oil will be without using to much bud and wasting any THC or CBD's. I can't wait to hear what everyone has to say in regards to this topic and as a newbie I thank you all in advance.
    So....hmmm..well I'm not really sure how I should go about this...coconut oil will take about 30% on first pass and if you run that oil on fresh herb you could get 50% at 160 or so...
    http://janetcoonce.com/2013/01/02/fatty-acid-struc...
    A nice link breaking down the structure of saturated fats, triglycerides..

    I wanted to get exact and technical with it...but there are just too many variables I will do the best I can to explain...
    Shorter triglycerides are considered more polar. The longer the hydrocarbon tail, the less polar the molecule.....thc is relatively non polar and like oil has a hydrophobic tail and somewhat polar head....and thca (before decarboxylation) is somewhat more polar

    Now then a tri(3) glyceride is a glycerol(relatively polar sugar alcohol) backbone and three (different) fatty acids
    Food Lauric acid Myristic acid Palmitic acid Stearic acid
    Coconut oil 47% 18% 9% 3%
    Palm oil 0.1% 1% 44% 5%
    Butter 3% 11% 29% 13%
    Ground beef 0% 4% 26% 15%
    Dark chocolate 0% 1% 34% 43%
    Soybean oil 0% 0% 11% 4%

    They differ in chain length..remember more= non polar
    Butyric acid with 4 carbon atoms
    Lauric acid with 12 carbon atoms
    Myristic acid with 14 carbon atoms
    Palmitic acid with 16 carbon atoms
    Stearic acid with 18 carbon atoms

    But that's not all that is in the oil

    Saturated Mono-unsaturated Poly-unsaturated...As weight percent (%) of total fat in Cooking oils
    Canola oil 8 64 28
    Olive oil 7 78 15
    Sunflower oil [3] 11 78 11
    Soybean oil 15 24 58
    Peanut oil 11 71 18
    Coconut oil 86 13 1

    Now Medium-chain triglycerides (MCTs) are medium-chain (8 to 10 carbons)

    In the digestive system MCTs are broken down into individual fatty acids (MCFA). Unlike other fatty acids, MCFA are absorbed directly from the intestines into the portal vein and sent straight to the liver where they are, for the most part, burned as fuel much like a carbohydrate. In this respect they act more like carbohydrates than like fats.

    Other fats require pancreatic enzymes to break them into smaller units. They are then absorbed into the intestinal wall and packaged into bundles of fat (lipid) and protein called lipoproteins. These lipoproteins are carried by the lymphatic system, bypassing the liver, and then dumped into the bloodstream, where they are circulated throughout the body. As they circulate in the blood, their fatty components are distributed to all the tissues of the body. The lipoproteins get smaller and smaller, until there is little left of them. At this time they are picked up by the liver, broken apart, and used to produce energy
    MCTs do not require bile salts for digestion and therefore, passively absorbed by the intestinal tract into the blood stream where they are used for energy
    Rich sources of MCTs include palm kernel oil, coconut oil and camphor tree drupes.

    No that doesn't have to do with saturation per say ......




    Now the saturated fat content differs minimally between butter and coconut..a couple grams ... ...so how much difference does all this make?

    Not much.... because temp is such a factor with the marginal differences it will still be 30-50% no matter what you use....now hopefully though you can be better informed on the absorption of the fat and know coconut will be absorbed faster and be more potent...

    Note that Wikipedia played a role in numbers..thank you wiki

    If that didn't satisfy...let me know what I could add for you

    If you had say 100ml (15 in a tbsp) I would expect around 50ml of hash to dissolve into it...I wish I could give you an extremely exact number using a fancy program that calculates how much thc can be held onto 1 mole of each...
    qwizoking, Nov 27, 2013


    There's a lot more where this came from on a Google search. As you can see it's amazingly complicated. Lambgabriel.
     
  13. What Im going to do is use one ounce of fresh bud in one cup of oil. I will then compare it to 2 ounces per cup and then 3 ounces per cup. Maybe the maximum potency is in between 2 ounces-3 ounces per cup
     
  14. Thanks for the link Joker!!! That is very interesting. The science behind it is obviously pretty complicated haha. It will be impossible for me to figure it out on my own but I am just going to trial and error and see what's the best canna oil for me. Thanks!
     
  15. There's a difference in how much the coconut oil will extract and how much it will "carry". I can tell you for a fact that you can pack the cannabinoids from an ounce of buds easily into 1 fluid ounce of coconut oil but not as an extraction. Using it as a carrier will hold the most.


    Your experiment won't really tell you how much it will hold because you won't be able to recover the whole cup of oil after each extraction and you'll need to top it off each time for the next run so you'll always be adding fresh oil. It will get stronger each time but you will run out of saturated fat molecules eventually I would assume.


    It would be easier to make a concentrate first but if you want to use bud and do multiple runs then you will be degrading the cannabinoids extracted previously with each run. By the time you're finished you will have destroyed much of the THC and degraded it to CBN. But if you have the bud to waste, go for it. I have found no limit to date as a carrier, though. [​IMG]
     
  16. #16 ShantiSena, Nov 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2015
    I have been also researching this and Agreed many just don't GET the question ...


    simply stated if one gram of fat can carry 'X'g THC, CBD, CBN etc, then it never matters the source quality and percentage as long as the super saturation point is reached.


    SImplest answer i found but as of yet untested is that on a first wash coconut oil can hold 30% AND A SECOND WASH OF FRESH BUD with same oil might reach 50% so that maximum saturation would be 1/2 the weight of butter.



    One tested batch of coconut oil had these results (potential baseline for maximum saturation)
    PER MILLILITER (ml)
    18.6mg
    THC/
    .29mg
    CBD/
    .19mg
    CBN –

    558mg
    THC/
    8.7mg
    CBD/
    5.7mg
    CBN

    PER OZ OF MY CANNA-COCONUT OIL
    with 15 ml being in a Tb and 2 Tb in 1fl oz that
    equals…….558 mg thc per batch of brownies can be expected making division of into 10 makes each brownie 55.8 mg THC etc ...
    with a high tolerance start 50-100 mg , but average users 5-10mg starting point



    hope it helps ...

     
  17. Another way is tsp = 5 fl oz 18.6x5=93mg/tsp which is average beginning medical dosage level ...250-500mg causes couch lock eyes roll back nap for even heaviest smokers (7g/day)
     
  18. Also the guy with all the orange text ...contradictions galore ...cocunt oil has 12 grams saturated fat ...butter is often trans and poly fats and different chain lengths. I have batches working and will report back on maximum saturation point for THC.CBC.CBN.etc
     
  19. Hi

    You quoted me... Thank ya lol
     

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