Moth to a flame?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Oni~, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. People spout forever "ignorance is bliss". Everyone knows that saying and most agree with it. What does that say about the opposite then? If ignorance is bliss then is knowledge suffering by default?

    Everyone seeks to know more. Some consider that to be enlightenment itself. To gain deeper and deeper insight into things and how reality works. How do we know that we are capable of handling not just "the truth" but the many maaaaany truths about many things out there?


    We already know that humans who witnessed atrocities, like in war for example, can get seriously mentally ill because of it. The same goes for almost all during childhood, as childhood traumas are a frequent discussion in any psychologist's practice. Could this also be achieved by venturing into mental shark waters on your own? Could there be a red pill overdose?


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  2. Going to war and child hood traumas are a bit different to being giving some informational truth, it's like when we was taught about hitter and concentration camps not a very nice subject but young children can deal with it but if you put a child in front of somebody dying from cyanide gas they will be traumatised,
    Knowing something and experiencing something is very different,
     
  3. Agreed. They are different.

    I wasn't trying to say they are identical, just pointing out how going through an event can have damaging effect on a person. Since we know that to be case, I was asking could gaining certain knowledge have a debilitating effect as well. It does not have to be the carbon copy experience of first hand physical trauma.

     
  4. Ok my bad I guess I miss read your post,
    What kind of knowledge are you referring too?
    I think 1 person can handle a lot of nasty and cruel knowledge but mix that with families and siblings and people go in to protect mode,
     
  5. General pondering here. Kind of along the lines of Nietzsche's gazing into the abyss and having it look back at you.

     
  6. #6 SlowMo, Oct 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2015
    We certainly can mentally traumatize ourselves. We do it all the time when we go apeshit with rage over some trivial annoyance, suffer grief from a loss, allow ourselves to become focused and eventually become habituated on various stress-producing, self-destructive behaviours. Or, in some "ignorance is bliss" mentality, decide that becoming a knowledgeable voter instead of a knee jerk partisan zombie has no practical relevance to their lives. Then they later suffer the negative ramifications of the chaotic mess that later ensues from those choices.
     
  7. I think with more knowledge anxiety and depression can come with it.

    I have several scientists in my family ranging from NASA to a biologist at a high regarded university. They are smart people

    And they all suffer from some form of the both.

    Now this could be hereditary but another thing that I've noticed is the less "knowledgable" family members are content with their life's (from the outside perspective). And I don't mean to sound rude but these less knowledgable family members are quite ignorant to certain things in life. For example never pondering about their own existence due to their strong belief in God.
     
  8. Knowledge is that forbidden fruit we can't help but indulge ourselves deeply in. Despite instinctual adaptations that give learning an advantageous perspective on life, learning the hard way and living the easy way will separate that fork in the road every time.
     
  9. " A man who knows anything knows he knows nothing at all" I think enlightenment is a freeing of the mind not encumbering it with theories.
     


  10. I think I agree, but completely dependent on the man and both his philosophy and his chemical make up.


    Since enlightenment leads to answers, it also leads to more questions. The enlightened man does realize how little he knows, but he also realizes there are immediate questions he will always have and never have the answer. Some can say "so it is" and find "peace" in this. Others can be driven mad or at least permanently malcontent by it.

    While it is obviously not beneficial to go mad, I can understand someone becoming malcontent over the fact that he realized how small and clueless his species actually is and will remain for the rest of his known life. I'm not encouraging it, but I can absolutely understand it. I think this is one way (not the only way) existentialism crises can arise.

     
  11. #11 freethinker, Oct 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
    This can be true if we believe solely in our knowledge 'concepts' as truth, however, all concepts are learned agreed upon sounds and therefore can't be the truth, only an agreed upon truth.


    All concepts and beliefs (in your head) about life will eventually die off, either through altimeters disease before you die, or when your brain actually dies completely with the death of the body. Knowing this, how could anything generated in our electro-chemical brains be taken seriously?


    We observe and examine our 'everything' from an 'X' point of observation created in our minds and then agree upon this observation as long as enough of us have the same agreed upon measurement. Reality created us and at the same time we create reality in this peanut sized space in our minds.


    There's a constant give and take relationship with all that is at all times. One can't exist without the other. There is no reality 'out there' without the 'you' observing it. Everything is relationship, and therefore, everything is one... only your brain attempts to make it personal to what you believe in your mind to be a separate 'you'.


    Knowledge is fleeting, temporary, and subjective. Find the know-er or observer of this knowledge that exists prior to the mind, and then you'll find truth.


    Check this out if you have time. Start at 42:40 and try to understand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWSu_EewZZI&index=6&list=LLY5q9qvEzsgnQwvjnPCzk1Q

     
  12. Eloquently put. I agree that this theoretical enlightenment is contentment with your own being. One common theme we can asses is the oneness usually associated with enlightenment. If you feel that oneness the existential crisis can be lulled with empathy. I hope
     
  13. Or with any other redeeming factor within that feeling of dealing with existentialism. It's kind of accurate-by-default, because if it actually assuages you during a time of existential crisis, then it really is working and should be considered a big deal.

     
  14. True, we all have some void to fill in this perpetual debt we pay to our soul.
     
  15. I don't think ignorance = bliss. I think ignorance +- bliss.


    I think your total depends on how you define your personal values. Assuming traditionally agreed upon values, knowing your current girlfriend is a rape victim could go pretty much any which way. It depends upon your experience, added to her experience. If humans are a little more complicated than a binary code, then we have a -1. That would mean, if we are only minimally more complicated than binary code at our finest degree of examination, then we are composed of accrued negative ones (-1), zeros (0), and ones(1) (lol Humanary Code).


    Simplifying this analogy:
    Eating the right amount of good food = +1.
    Eating too much, or too little good food = 0 ('too little' arguably close to a -1, depending upon how frequent 'too little' occurs)
    Eating too little bad food, = 0.
    Eating too much bad food = -1.


    Once it gets more complex, like a rape victim raping others - I think it requires a bit more understanding. Is that a +, 0, or -?


    Well, I think it gets more complex here. It seems to me that understand becomes its own quantity, that is almost separate from the -1s, 0s, +1s.
    Assume each of those quantities are a counter that only applies to 'knowledge'. Such as, (-1) + 0 + 0 + (-1) = -2. You are having a bad fucking day. Each of those individual numbers (excluding the total) = 4. So, each number we add, simply adds one to our Counter Total.


    What does the Counter Total have to do with our experience? Well, it's sort of a tight rope. If you fall off the tight rope, it's because you had too low of a counter to hold that Experiential Weight. You developed a habit that won't knowingly increase some aspect of yourself which results in self-appreciation.


    Wtf is Experiential Weight? I think it's our 'Counter Total' minus our 'Humanary Code'.
    The lower that number, the more we do things we later regret.
    The higher that number, the more we do things we end up enjoying.


    I think.


    Might have smoked more than I'm used to :smoke:


    Question me to watch me make a fool of myself.

     

  16. I think I get your gist. Hacksaw Jim Duggan was an alcoholic?

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  17. He sure as fuck looks like one. But then again, I don't.

     

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