Just watched an interview by him on tv. My initial thought was well done, but after watching it i have my doubts. He also looked like he regretted it even though he wouldnt admit that. Me personally i got the impression he did it for the fame but it backfired on him. Now he's stuck in moscow. Dont get me wrong the various people they interviewed from american and british security agencies trundled out there usual BS about the security of the nation and we dont snoop on you etc etc. However i think what he did was pretty reckless and lets be honest what did he really alert the public to that we already kinda knew anyway.i dont see him as some social hero i also dont want to see him spend years rotting in jail, but he should stand by his convictions. Anyway i thought it was an interesting interview. Your thoughts?
It doesn't matter what he did it for, only that he did it. The man is a legend for having the gonads to do it, whether you think he should've or not (insanity).
Snowden didn't tell anyone, anything, that they didn't know. Sure he gave a couple of codenames for it, but really people have known the deal. We live in a society where we fear the surveillance of our government, the only difference between now and before Snowden was that before we could take refuge in the possibility that we might be paranoid.
He'll probably be pardoned by some conservative president looking to score points with the Libertarians.
I saw the interview and I thought he was amazing. That bit he said about their ability to turn our personal phones on and off, or their ability to use our cell phone's mike to listen in on a room at their will, was a bit freaky.
I'd be surprised if anyone already knew the info that he released. You'd have gotten a visit if that were the case. The scope of the data he released goes beyond simple government snooping - which most people know and are accepting of - it goes way beyond that which anyone could have imagined. I think that's pretty clear given the levels of damage control the US government has had to do. If it is true that most people are aware that the State utilizes unlimited resources for going to great lengths to circumvent its own laws to intimidate dissidents and spy on its citizenry, then I suppose his actions would have been superfluous. However, I don't think that's the case. Most people I know don't acknowledge this at all, if they're even aware. I'm no fan of labels. Call him what you will. I think at the very least his actions should be described as courageous. He saw gigantic government abuses and did not remain silent. He gave up his 200k salary and benefits, had his passport revoked overseas and had to start over in a country that is very hostile towards Americans. He has given up a hell of a lot just so we could have a little bit of knowledge. Knowledge is power so they say. If he is as regretful as you claim he looked, then it's probably because he threw his life away for nothing, because no one really cared. Did he do it for fame? Beats the hell out of me. I don't care about that. It's a lot better than what other people are willing to do for fame.
Oh i dunno we accuse and speculate what our shady goverments do to oppress us. Some of the theories border on the absurd. Im pretty sure that the goverment could get all my life if they really wanted to. Also im not a terrorist or any danger to anyone so even if they did snoop on me,they would soon get bored lol Back to snowden though. He was in a job that was prolly fully aware that bordered on the fringe of legality. I don't know about the states but here you sign a document official secrets act if you are trusted and given a job in the security services. Guess the point im making he isnt very loyal. I dont know i just got the impression he wasnt doing this for the sake of the public. Im sure he had no problem with what the goverment wrre doing when he first took up the position.
he confirmed our fear. So yes he did tell us stuff we didn't know Now us government oppression of the masses is a proven fact and not just a hippie fad -Yuri
Loyalty? That's a concept for monarchies and dictatorships. In the US, *theoretically*, the government derives authority from the consent of the governed, and must act according to the Constitution. It's rule of law. If the government violates its oath of office, which is to uphold the Constitution, then it should be rendered illegitimate. Snowden saw government abuses and leaked them to the press, which is how a free society should operate. "Loyalty" goes both ways. The government did not remain loyal to its laws and the Constitution, and in fact is breaking its own laws, thus Snowden had no obligation to uphold any privacy agreements he may have made, in my uneducated opinion. I do not know why you are so hung up on what he leaked the information for. The end result is that the public is more informed about their own government. I personally believe that it is in the best interest of the public to know how they're being illegally spied on. I don't know why you would have a problem with that since you seem so aloof to the whole thing. The focus on Snowden as a person and the speculation of his intentions detracts from the important aspects of the situation. I believe he was acting in good faith and saw this as a matter of public importance.
Calm down mate :/ I watched a thing on tv thus morning and just formed an opinion. Like i said i dont give a flying fuck if the goverment spy on me! As i said if they did they would soon move on as im no threat. Well according to the interview he didn't set out to help terrorists and paedo sex rings but whatever he leaked he has helped/warned them in the workings of the security services. Guess i dont hold him in the same light as people who are filled with paranoia and every civil liberty. We live in an era where some rights might have to be stepped on for the greater good.
There we go. You don't give a flying fuck about your civil liberties so people who do must be paranoid. Also, I just opened this thread and formed some random opinions myself. I don't know what makes you think I am not calm just because I form well-thought out responses that logically follow and are difficult to argue with. But I'll take note to keep it short and sweet next time. Also, before you point the finger at Snowden for pedophile sex rings in places like Rotherham, you ought to point the finger at the utter incompetence of local councils or authorities or w/e they're called. No harm, no foul. It's all good. Admittedly it's not like I care a great deal, I just don't try to sugarcoat really bad things. It's not possible to polish a piece of gold with shit.
I think my reasonable theories as if they were true, but I treat them as unproven assumptions. I've learned that this particular approach does cause mistakes, however those mistakes typically happen early in a reasoning process, you reveal flaws in your reasoning when it theory does not turn out to be true. Thus I treated my suspicion that the government was spying on me (impersonally, but a surely as the sun shines on us all) as though it were reasonable to assume and therefore true. The degree to which the invade my privacy and violate my rights is not so important as the fact that they do. I believe it is our solemn duty as Americans to defend the rights (so hard won), not for ourselves but for the future of our kind. Freedom has made our world wonderful, and as surely as a flower fails before perpetual night, so too will man's innovative spirit fall below the lash of the king (erh.. government).
All moves we make in a public situation, are political, it is the nature of our kind. "Political" is just a macroscopic word for "Social". I guess it is sad, but it also nature. Many a cow, chicken, rabbit, pig, squirrel and deer died, that mankind might have evolved the power to create our global economy capable of feeding so many. That is sad, but it is the circle of life. We are not morally in debt for surviving this way. It is the circle from which life derives its capacity to live. All sentient things must take energy from others (in some form) to exist. Life consumes energy.
Sincerely doubt anyone semi-sane decides to turn the world's most powerful government against them "For fame". Snowden's background and profession suggests he would have had the common sense to understand what it means to do what he did. Even if we assume the unlikely scenario that he was a complete dunce, cases like Chelsea Manning or broader speaking Julian Assange are a clear indicator of what happens to someone when they leak government info. If he looks like he's "regretting it" like you say, we may want to consider that this is someone who's had to live in hiding in Russia for the past 2 years, separated from friends, family, and a domestic culture. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he showed up on TV looking like dog shit . Shocking that they would assume that stance.... Major fallacy "good" people make over and over and over... You are assuming because your actions are good to you, or most sane minds on the planet, that the person in charge of observing and accusing you would be of the same mindset. I am not saying you ARE being observed, and most likely you are right, you just like myself are not important/dangerous enough to be observed, but do not make the mistake that SHOULD you ever be observed it will be done by someone who sees things the way you do. You may be accused and convicted 5 years down the road of something that is perfectly normal and legal in today's world. Remember, laws, society, and rulers change. By today's standards, for example, everyone who ever opened their mouth in the 60's is racist/sexist/homophobic. The issue of ever increasing surveillance is made up of just how sophisticated and ubiquitous the technology actually is. This is coupled with the fact that sheer data storage is ultra cheap in general. In the private sector, you can buy a terabyte data storage device for <$50 already. This tells me that any major organization, like the government, can store everything and anything they ever find on anyone and everyone and store it indefinitely for whenever it's needed. My participation in these forums, for example, has permanently disqualified me from ever running for public office should anyone connect my real life persona to my posts. Again, I'm not saying you and I ARE being spied upon and our data is being stored. Maybe we are, I don't obviously know. What I am saying however, is that given the ever-increasing technology, each and every person can be tracked more and more and more, and that information can be stored indefinitely. As such, you and I can always be accused of X, Y, or Z at any point in our lives should someone influential enough decide to dig through that data. Today's political campaigns are a good example of this already happening without any sort of invasive surveillance being utilized. Candidates are constantly being accused of a stance they took on something 10-20 years ago. Imagine what that would look like had Facebook and forums like these existed when those candidates were in their youth.
I really hate the whole "I dont have anything to hide so I dont mind" mentality. I see it a lot with people from the UK. I know its not trendy to use American as an adjective but thats hands down the most unamerican way of thinking. If everyone was like that the entire world would turn into an even worse version of britain overnight. Being against authoritarianism and mass surveillance isnt synonymous with paranoid terrorist freedom fighters, you can live a regular life and still be against that. I dont have anything to hide and I would still like anyone and everyone to fuck off.
Yeah it's not that I really have anything to hide, it's more like, I don't believe it's the proper purpose or moral role of the government to operate like that. I already think government is too big and invasive in people's lives. If you can't come up with a better argument for a surveillance state than "why not?" then, well, fuck off.