This is my first grow. I've been an off and on lurker here over 10 years now, but this my first time taking the plundge and growing something for myself. I'm tired of spending money, dealing with shitty drug dealer, risking ordering on darknet, etc etc. Between me and my significant other, we smoke about an eigth a day, roughly ounce a week, so approx a QP per month. My ultimate goal for my first harvest is 12-16 ounces, that would be enough to for-sure hold us off til next harvest. My Seedling Cab: - 50 gallon (40in L x 21.5in W x 18in H) Sterilite storage box lined with Mylar - 8 x 23w (1600 lumens) CFLs (total: 184watts, 12800 lumens) - Custom wood frame. 4 x exension cord, 4 x plug socket adapter, 4 x Y socket adapter - Dual 4in fans (cheap dollar store) for exaust. Room is stays around 74-75 degrees, all lights on and both fans running keep the box at 77-78 degrees. - Currently running ALL lights 24/0 (is this too much for seedlings?) - Put seeds in water, put sinkers in paper towel, waited for white sprots, put sprouted seeds in jiffy pods (I'm also using the jify seedling dome). Going to be transplanting seedlings to solo cups filled with 4:1 FFOF to perlite. Materials I've got so far: - Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil - Perlite (checked to make sure it was 100% perlite with no extra nutes or anything. Will mix with soil 4 parts FFOF to 1 part perlite) - Couple gallons of distilled water - Spray bottle for misting seedlings My Immediate Shopping List (obtaining all within 2 weeks): - 4ftx4ft grow tent (probabley will go Apollo) - 1000w HPS light (again, will probabley go Apollo) - 2 x 6in inline fans & ducting (thinking I'll need at least 2 for 1000w in 4x4 - one for hood, one for actual grow area) - Programmable thermastat outlet for small AC that will be going in room where tent will be - 4ftx4ft tray - Bigger pots or bags (what you guys thinks pots vs bags?) My Future Shopping List (obatining within the next 4-6 weeks): - 6in carbon filter (looking at iPower's) - Flowering nutes (thinking staying organic and going Tiger Bloom, thoughts? I've read FFOF soil will hold me out for veg and I don't need nutes now) - The "maybe" list: extra 1000w HPS bulb (light kit comes with both HPS and MH so I'll have a MH as backup), better camera for taking pics Seedling Cab lights on Seedlings: big/main tray biggest one in big/main tray (popped 2 days ago) small tray sexiest seedling in small tray I NEED HELP! Started noticing some yellowing on the tips of two of the plants. Is this normal for seedling stage? Just peat moss pellets at this time, 24/0 light schedule, distilled water. Still waiting for PH kit. Anyone know what this might be? I was thinking possibly I should cut back on my lighting. They are hanging about 3 inches above the dome, 4-5 inches from the tallest seedlings. Running all 8 CFLs on 24/0 schedule. yellowing tips #1, help! yellowing tips #2, help! yellowing tips #3, help! Thanks for taking a look! I will be sure to post updates as they happen. Any help/suggestions with my yellowing-tips issue would be appreciated! Any other input, suggestions, comments, etc are welcome, please don't be too harsh! I'm trying to read and research as much as I can and take it all in. Sorry I had to use postimage for images, for some reason the attachments feature crashes Tor browser.
Woke up today and largest seedling's lowest set of leaves have yellowed with brown on tips. Someone suggested I might be overwatering, so haven't given them any more in the last 2 days. The peat moss pellets do still feel damp but not dripping when squeezed or anything. For the most part I've left the dome off the big tray. Any ideas?
Hi ecg, always glad to see a new grower! as for your seedlings, I couldn't tell you what the problem is exactly, I use seeds myself and have a bit of trouble at times. Your CFL lights should not be too close for the seedlings at that height, I put mine much closer and have no signs of burn ever. Over-watering doesn't really look like the issue, however, I would advise against the humidity dome from this point on, they don't need incredible amounts of humidity. If you're growing in a 4x4 tent, which is what I use, i would suggest you use a 400 or 600 watt HPS, and possibly two of them. I don't know where you live, but temperature is huge, and even I have trouble keeping my temps below 88F with a 400 watt HPS by Apollo, which I do recommend and can say is a trustworthy product, two fans, an intake fan, and an exhaust fan, and I'm in Michigan where the temperature stays at 76 on our thermostat. Also, in the book I've been reading, Marijuana Horticulture by Jorge Cervantes who wrote the original Grower's Bible, explains lighting extensively and I believe, according to my resources, possibly a 600 watt HPS, two 400 watts, or two 600 watts would be perfect for your setup. Of the most common HID wattages used, 400, 600 and 1000, the 600 is the most efficient light at 150 lumens per watt, 400 at 125 lumens per watt, and 1000 at 140 lumens per watt. The extra 10 lumens per watt multiplied by 600 would in turn give you 6,000 lumens of extra light. That's almost half of your vegetative light you have! Also, although Metal Halides and HPS bulbs are known to give the best light penetration of all artificial lighting, It's still not very good. "Light intensity virtually doubles for every six inches closer an HID is to the canopy of a garden." -Jorge Cervantes A 1000 watt HPS should rarely be closer than two feet above the canopy (unless using cooling tubes which reduce available lumens anyway). At 2 feet away a 1000 watt HPS will only produce 35,000 lumens, and a 600 watt HPS would produce 22,500 lumens. This is when heat comes into play. It isn't that a 1000 watt light wouldn't have enough penetrable light to grow dense buds, it is just less efficient on several different levels (but your cheaper alternative). According to Marijuana Horticulture the maximum light requirements for plants in the flowering stage need 10,000 foot-candles or lumens to form dense buds. This can be achieved at 4 feet away with the 1000 watt, 3 feet away with the 600, and 2.25 feet for the 400 watt. 400 and 600 watt light bulbs can be placed significantly closer than a 1000 watt bulb. If you exhaust your air enough, have good intake, nice circulation and can manage to keep your temps down both bulbs can essentially be placed up to a foot closer than the 1000 watt HPS. I don't know how many of those plants you plan on keeping, how long you're going to vegetate them for, or your methods of topping, low stress training, super cropping etc. so let us know these facts as well, as you may want to go for a 6x6 tent instead. This would give you much more room to work with and you would be able to fit more plants without much need for stronger exhaust than you're looking at. I have just a 4 inch inline duct fan that works fine for odor, but could be a bit more efficient for heat. If you're getting two 6 inch duct fans that should be plenty in a 6x6 and exceptional for a 4x4 tent. Personally, i would get just about everything you got, but rather the 6x6 tent with two 600 watt HPS bulbs. If I were to use the 4x4 tent I would stick with two 400s unless you plan on expanding your operation as well, then 600s because you want to think ahead here a little bit also, and being the most efficient of the HIDs on the market it's a good investment. That being said, your question about your planters, I would recommend the grow bags, for they increase drainage as well as aeration in your soil, which many new growers don't know about, but your soil needs oxygen!getting it from all angles rather than just the top gives your roots what they want: water and air. I hope my advice at least got you thinking even if you don't take it! Good luck on your journey!
jwhardy21, thank you so much for your reply! I will take that all into consideration and might just downgrade to the 600w. I'm going to be ordering my light, tent, and blowers probabley tomorrow or the next day. As for training, I'll probabley just do a simple single top about a month into veg, 4 nodes down or so (from what I read). I've been reading alot about LST, however I don't feel like I grasp it fully yet... I'm not sure how long I'm going to veg, depends how fast they grow. I've read they double to tripple size during 12/12, so I'll prob keep them going till they are at least of a third of the size I want them. I'm guessing anywhere from 6-8 weeks, although this is my first time and random strain so I'm not sure. I'm still running my cab 24/0, however switching to 18/6 in the next few days after my timer comes in.
I made a post in the sick plants forum about my yellowing leaf tips and someone suggested I was over-watering. So I kicked back watering and misting from everyday to no misting and watering every other to every 3rd day or so. Looks like I killed most of the seedlings with my overwatering 3-4 days ago I transplanted survivors into solo cups filled with 4 parts FFOF, 1 part perlite. Anyway, Here's the best looking ones of the group so far (I got an actual digital camera now): Sexiest looking (hopefully girl) of the bunch: Here's three sickly runts: And here's the outside of my box for anyone curious:
Boy, I really wish I could help you out with your little seedlings, but like i said, I have trouble starting them myself. If you haven't ordered your light yet, I would really consider a 600 watt now if you only vegetate for a month, because they will be stockier and require less depth penetration, and you'll be nice and cool inside your tent. I like topping. I have topped just above the 4th node in the past, but I go up a bit higher now and veg them out longer and even top them a second time for more tops. As for stretch, I have always heard the plants get 2-3 times bigger as well, however, I haven't had much more than 50% growth prior to first stigmas appearing, and haven't quite gotten to where they've even doubled in height by the time harvest comes along. I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much, though, because your tent will allow for close to five feet of vertical growth at it's max, which you won't reach at just four weeks of vegetation (I bet you'll change your mind on how long you want to veg for, because most people that I've seen on forums grow from clones which take off quicker and need less time in vegetation than seeds. I grow very compact indicas, generally, that won't get over a foot tall in 4-5 weeks of growth) You are new, and what I recommend is for you to experiment. You should place a new plant or two in flower every week. You have no idea yet how your plants will grow and how you even want them to grow yet. I don't know if you can do this, because it can make growing a bit more complicated and increase your need for good organizational skills (what to feed, when to feed, and track records will need to be kept for each individual plant you have rather than all of them as a bunch). This is sort of how I try to grow, a new plant every 2-4 weeks. This can be more time consuming, but probably more rewarding in the long run with the extra experience you've gained, plus on your next attempt you'll have a much better idea of how much space you have available, and how to take advantage of all of it. Get back to us and tell us what else you got for your setup!
Okay some updates. Transplanted the beasts (excluding 4 runts) into 1 gallon fabric pots (again using FFOF & perlite 4:1). Prob should have went straight from peat moss pellets to bigger pots, or started seeds straight in solos, because they outgrew them quick, lots of roots showing on bottom when removing them from the cups. I've been only running 4 out of 8 of the 23 CFLs because I was having some heat issues. Discovered is was negative pressure, not enough intake, so I added another intake and temps seem to stay around 79 degrees or so with all 8 CFLs on. I also removed the light frame and attached lights directly to side of the box, made for nicer air flow. The down-side is I'm going to have to raise my plants rather than lowering my lights, but for this box it works out fine, I'm able to get the lights higher and more space for my plants to grow. I have also added an interior fan which is not pictured below, but I have added one. I just plug it in during the day but once my timers get here I'm going to have it go on for 2 hours, off 2 hours, and so on in a loop. I got my 4x4 tent, PH up/down kit, digital PH meter, timers, and a few more misc supplies ordered and on the way. I'm still probabley about 2 weeks or so away from being able to afford my light and blowers, so I might do a little LST if these babies get too big for my current box before I get another. Plants haven't got water in almost 4 days and causing them to wilt a bit, but gave them all healthy doses of water today after transplanting and hope to see some improvement shortly. The more and more I read, I'm considering only going with the 600w instead of the 1000w HPS, however I'm still not 100% decided on that issue yet. Thanks for all your input so far @jwhardy21. So far no other nutes, just basic watering distilled watering. I'm excited for my PH kits and meter to come in so I can actually start tesitng and correcting my water PH, I might switch to tap water as buying gallons of distilled is annoying. Any tips for distilling my own water? Any links or guides in the right direction would be helpful. Anyway, here's the latest shots: here's the beasts I transplanted made a mess in my carpet runts, will transplant in next couple days my favorite one, the bushiest my second fav, biggest fan leaves new light placement light placement #2 plants in box, no lights Any comments, tips, advice, etc all welcome! Thanks for taking a look!
Not too shabby! I'm diggin' those fabric pots by the way. I go straight into solo cups now rather than peat pellets for the exact reasons you said. I've used white Styrofoam cups before, and the roots got slightly green all along the sides because of the white, so make note of that. As for your water, I know buying distilled water from the store can be a pain in the neck, plus costs more money than water is worth, so I'd say go with tap for now. Later, opposed to a distiller, i would recommend a cheap RO unit. I found one on Amazon that produces 50 gallons per day here http://goo.gl/Auc4y1 If you use tap water, it does have calcium and magnesium in it, which your plants can pretty much always use a little bit more, especially if you aren't using Cal/Mag. Obviously there is other junk you don't want in your water, probably the biggest threat being chlorine, but that can be taken care of by simply letting your water sit out for several hours until the chlorine is gone. While we're on the subject of watering, I'd like to recommend blackstrap molasses. Wholesome Sweeteners makes a great brand. You can also pick up a cheap bottle (around $3.00) of Grandma's Molasses at your local grocery store. It contains lots of organic potassium, which helps aid in nutrient uptake, as well as calcium and magnesium (again, less need to use Cal/Mag). it also contains carbohydrates and sugars, which a lot of growers see as the most important characteristic of molasses, but I personally don't. Molasses dramatically increases the microbial activity in your soil, increasing nutrient uptake. I use molasses every watering at 1/2 tsp. per gallon. There is one other amendment I use every watering that contains molasses, potassium and other trace minerals, but it's part of the nutrient line I use. It is hard to use too much potassium, calcium and magnesium. (Doesn't mean you can't, though!) I'm glad you caught your plants before they started to wilt too bad, they'll pop right back up happy as a clown If you are interested, I can type up a small chart comparing different forms of molasses, and why I like Wholesome Sweeteners the most. I'm glad so many of your seeds have made it this far! Peace
Timers came in. Started 18/6 yesterday (was running 24/0). Adding dedicated AC to room tomorrow, aswell as adding some new lights to the box. Tent still hasn't came in, still waiting on some more money before so I can order my HPS light/fans. Was thinking about starting some LST soon, however I have a problem I'm worried about and don't want to add any more stress to them. Problem started happening within the last week with one plant, and within the last few days I noticed 4+ plants showing symptoms. Yellowing leaves (some just tips, some whole leaves). Leaves are also getting stiff/dryish, curling and twisting in one case. Some brown spots aswell on a couple plants. I double-checked PH of distilled water and was sitting around 7ish-7.5. I used some PH down today with my latest watering at PH 5.8. Any ideas what this could be? one of my runts sick too Speaking of runts, transplanted 3 out of 4 today: And here's all the potential ladies.
It's hard for me to diagnose those plants, it looks like you are having several issues. I would advise against trying to fool around with pH too much. Growing in soil helps buffer the pH opposed to hydroponics systems. I pay more attention to PPMs. When I'm in doubt, I flush and give a mild nutrient solution, so you should use a TDS meter to read your runoff water. I know Ocean Forest runs hot for a lot of people. I'm not positive a flush could completely help that.
Sorry about the delays, been busy round my parts. Okay, so a week ago (8/23) I did some transplanting, LSTing, and feeding. I've started using tap water PH adjusted to 6.3 range, using 1/2 tsp of Grandma's mollases and 1/2 tsp of General Hyrdoponics Cal/Mag per gallon. Here's some pics from the 8/23: pre-LST in box pre-LST 6 that are going into 3 gal (3 runts are staying in 1 gal due to space) transplanted to 3 gallon fabric pots, pre-LST 3 gallon pots, after LST runts, staying in 1 gallon pots (due to space), pre-LST runts, after LST
These pics are a week later, yesterday (8/31). LST has definately done some work, turning into bushes!!! These guys are unforunately still under the twelve 23w CFLs. Finances are making me unable to get an HPS light for at least another week, maybe two, so looks like they'll prob have their full veg life under CFLs and I'll start flowering in tent under HPS in a two or three weeks. They are week 5-6 of veg right now, so I need to get on it soon. No preflowers or anything showing just yet. Thanks for looking!