this is accurate this is unrelated to the thread (and you are already well informed Green Wizard so this isnt for you), and I won't go much deeper than this on the Greece issue, but for those interested in getting to know the problem (which has now been delayed as a result of bailouts), Bloomberg Business did an excellent animated infographic 12 minutes, but well made, mapping out the european economy in layman's terms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xAXJx9WJ8 as an addendum since I'm already off the rails, I recommend anyone interested in Bernie Sanders to get educated with how we run shit in Scandinavia, and the strengths and weaknesses of a social democracy at it's purest form
Your comparing the banking crisis, which was caused by individuals in the private sector to excessive government spending/borrowing, which were the result of socialist policies.
I never said the current system is any good.. it's corrupt, bloated and horribly inefficient. all I'm trying to say is that a "nordic style" government would not work in the US with all of the trillions they dole out in foreign aid, and the "defense" budget. The nordic countries Penelope was talking about do not have to foot the bill for all that stuff, so they can afford to give out healthcare and other things like that. I like Bernie.. i disagree with him on many things, but i like the fact that he speaks his mind and isn't playing the game. He has a lot of Ron Paul in him in that aspect. As big of a RP fan as i was/am, i was never naive enough to believe that any of his major plans would fly with the current system and congress. If bernie were elected tomorrow... do you think congress would pass a bill that taxes people or corporations at 90%? not a chance in hell... The ideal template in my opinion? I'm no political expert.. but i would start by getting rid of all foreign aid, close down any unneeded bases around the world, close down any redundant government programs, deal with the lobbyist issues, campaign funding etc.. As well as having a real look at what government agencies can either be eliminated or reworked so they aren't so wasteful with the spending. There's way too much bureaucracy in DC.. Then i would use that money saved to provide whatever social programs, education, healthcare etc that we can actually afford. than there's the whole national debt.. but i don't think anyone has a clue on how to solve that issue..
We have no faith in the system. How are you to make an intelligent, informed decision when you never know who's been bought and paid for, if an election's been rigged, if the candidate you decide to support flops on the platform they campaigned on. Everything you read or hear about any candidate or issue could and probably is either purposefully communicated out of context, or is just an outright fabrication. There's no way to know anything. So why bother?
As a Vermonter, I was proud to cast my vote for Bernie in 2012 and I will be doubly proud to vote for him in the primary. The professional speculators have labeled Bernie a fringe candidate, but there's nothing fringe about the policies he advocates. Policies that saw this country thrive under FDR and Eisenhower. I've been saying for some time that there would eventually be a populist backlash against the oligarchy that has subverted our democracy, and I hope that Bernie will be the lightning rod that catalyzes that populist backlash. Either way, it would be very foolish to underestimate him. Bernie's personal hero is Eugene Debs, a Socialist who ran for President five times before he was eventually imprisoned for his liberal advocacy. Bernie fashions himself a populist fighter in the mold of Debs, and he will be campaigning to win right up until the buzzer while Hillary is hosting closed fundraiser dinners for five grand a plate and literally roping off the press.
the media already gave Hillary the nomination tho I remember ALL my liberal friends and family saying "we need the Clinton's back in office" way back when Hillary was still pulling the "I'm not going to run" stunt. My Facebook was riddled with pro Clinton memes. Unfortunately I believe she will be our next president. Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Perhaps you're right. But I think a lot of the Clinton loyalty is inherently shaky as evidenced by her sliding favorability polls. A lot of the "stand with Hillary" people dislike her and I predict they'll jump ship when presented with a viable alternative. Whether that alternative is Bernie or another center right bluedog in disguise like Biden (who I secretly like) remains to be seen.
He says some good things but that's about it. When push comes to shove, Bernie loves himself some big federal government. I snagged this info graphic that seems accurate. FWIW, Ron Paul is my homeboy.
This is just laughable propaganda. Of course Bernie's message is going to appeal to ignorant people, but his policies are not just based on false promises and have some substance. Bernie and Ron Paul are both very smart individuals who believe in starkly opposed ideas. Ron Paul believes that governmental intervention has caused more issues than it has solved and that is why we should cut down and reduce government, because government can be very inefficient and corrupt. Bernie says look, government is not always the best system, but when it comes to things like healthcare and higher education there may be a better way to run the system than through private means which is doing a terrible job. Both of them have good ideas and decent reasons for supporting their arguments/ extreme ideas that go too far. At the end of the day I respect both and I think both have some good ideas, but like all politicians they are not perfect. Bernie is too far to the left for me but believing in more access to healthcare/education and amending citizens United ruling are things he fights for that I strongly support. Ron Paul is far too right for me but some things he stands for like getting out of middle Eastern countries, ending corporate welfare, and ending the war on drugs that I strongly support. At the end of the day I think unlike most other politicians these two guys are very honest smart individuals, who have a lot of good ideas but also both have some extreme ideas that would not work if executed. Perfect example is getting rid of many regulatory agencies like Ron Paul has suggested which would just have extremely negative consequences. Also, Bernie believes in a 15 national minimum wage, but that would be unreasonable in some parts of the country where the average worker doesn't even make 15 an hour so I do not support him on that. I will agree with the first part that Bernie's message is what people want to hear but the rest of the points made are extremely misleading. Memes about candidates are always misleading especially about guys like Sanders and Paul who are much more nuanced than most other politicians.
I too find Ron Paul to be a genuine man, which is a rare thing in the current political climate, even here in (comparatively) utopian Norway. This is an aside, but since I have you - I am curious why you have such a hatred of the federal government? In practice in USA specifically, I agree that it's not doing well. Do you aim your hatred of big government to all nations as an ideology, or specifically to the USA? To contrast, I'm writing this right now on a break at university where I'm finishing a masters degree - entirely funded by my fellow countrymen. I've paid about 150 bucks in symbolic money over 6 years. I can't wait to get the degree, get a high-paying engineering job and paying a high amount of taxes to provide that same freedom of education to the next generation of Norwegians. To me, looking after your fellow countrymen is<span class="redactor-invisible-space"> patriotism. </span> Is American patriotism based less around looking after other Americans, and making sure the nation as a whole is strong, healthy and happy, and more on the founding principles of individualism? Is American patriotism to 'look out for number one'?
That's terribly Orwellian. I see the connection, yes. If you can trust no one, then why engage at all. I see that, and it's a point well made. How is that then dealt with? Does it involve more normal Americans giving up their careers and pursuing politics? Is it possible, now that we have the internet and social media and so on - to divert the massive flow of money into advertising and lobbyism? How do you - as the politicians over there love to say - Take the country back? I am very interested in brainstorming possible ways out of the current situation
Education, good education, is the only way. The kind that makes people smarter, not just training for a job. With a more intelligent populace, you'll have more people who will not only realize what's going on, but also have the ability and competency to execute real change. Edit: And to add to that, it needs to be well-rounded, too; I'm not talking about just pouring money into STEM subjects. If there is to be real change, the world needs artists to light the fire of society.
This question may seem loaded, and it is - I'm sort of putting my mind into a question and throwing it at you to see if there are something that I don't know about my shit - I think you're a pretty smart guy, so I hope you understand it's intended to challenge your viewpoint by way of criticism, so I may indirectly learn more of my own viewpoint. So, As a deeper moral curiousity - do you feel the government is in the wrong for enforcing corporations to pay back to the society from which it harvests resources, at the expense of profits, at the expense of a potentially healthy business climate, or, are corporations in the wrong for doing all they can to avoid paying back to those from whom they harvest, including keeping their money in the bank accounts of other nations, hiring employees of other nations, building job opportunities in other nations, and the master sin - investing in lobbyism, which is another word for corruption in practice, and which now also dominates the political process? Is business freedom the best way to build a prosperous and egalitarian society? Is there some process of economical and socio-political jujitsu that can have both a high tax rate and a prosperous economy? Do such nation states exist? Do they have a financial and political model that can be emulated? (Is it Scandinavia?, is the unflattering loaded end of my question, and would a wise citizen of USA examine how things are done here, where we have both high corporate taxes, and prosper in business?) Is social democracy so easily brushed aside by the intelligent, rational, observant man? If so, why? <span class="redactor-invisible-space">And how is Scandinavia as it is in 2015 viewed as foolish?</span> <span class="redactor-invisible-space"> </span> <span class="redactor-invisible-space">Edit: TLDR: Is there a smith across the hill who makes a better hammer than you, and would it be wise to check out his techniques, if what really mattered to you was making your village nice? (if that even makes sense, im high af)</span>
I would say that I have a hatred of the use of force against peaceful people. In the USA the only thing the federal government does well is loot money from its citizens. If keeping 100% of the fruits of one's labor is slavery, at what percentage is it not? You are acting like without this mythical construct called government, nothing you are trying to accomplish would even be possible. Learning would cease to exist, apparently? Too bad I cannot go next-door and get some patriotism from my neighbor, time to become a legislator. Because without legislation, it's just armed robbery... Despite being heavily looted, the United States is still one of the most charitable countries in the world. The USA also has the largest social security program (which is totally fucked). Government only gets in the way of peace/progress of the human race.
Well, the direct opposite is the reality here. That undeniable fact means nothing to you? Is the deeper observation that the government is a reflection of the people? Are Norwegians more willing to pay for each other, and look after each other, and do Americans expect each other to look after themselves?
the government is rarely a reflection of the people. If it was, Wed rarely have revolution, civil unrest, and low approval ratings -Yuri
i disagree. The government is a good representation of the people. People are stupid, Stupid people vote for greedy politicians, greedy politicians do more greedy shit to make more money. We kinda do rarely. Times are changing with the Internet and loss of more baby boomers so will be funny to see how shit plays out.