As soon as i popped out of the womb i took up external physica space with my sovereign being/body. No one has the right to tell me to crawl back up the womb, so i would say by natural decree i must have the right to live somewhere. We have plenty of space, we will run out of food before we run out of space for people.
If you steal something from another do you then own it? Or does the original owner still own it, seeing as I took it from the owner. My right to ownership, of land for example, is as much justified as the right to ownership of the original owner.
You're assuming that the person you stole it from, 'owned' it. OP tell me if I am wrong, but I think the original premise of the debate was whether the concept of ownership is ever justified?
Exactly, if neither of us has any right to ownership then I can take whatever I want. But if we both have a right to ownership then still, I can take whatever I want, because he has no more right to it than me. So what I'm saying, is it doesn't fucking matter, ownership is an illusion. Anything can and will be taken. Whether it makes it with you through your whole life or not is irrelevant.
No, that is a question of moral. Is it right to take that object from someone else's possession? Nothing to do with the concept of ownership IMO. Are you one of those people who would take everything that they can from everyone that they can, if they can get away with it?
I don't. And I'd rather not. But I wouldn't feel bad about it if I needed to. I don't believe in a moral right or wrong. Survive or die don't be bitch.
You're trying to use possession and ownership like they are different meaning. I'll post it again Ownership- the act of possessing something.
Look at this from another perspective. Why do humans do things? Anythings. Humans are driven by instincts. We want to mate. We want to eat. We want to enjoy our senses. We want to hoard wealth and property. Everything humans do is ultimately based on desire created by internal instincts. Therefore, if one has no rights to ownership, what incentives does one have to do things like study or play music, if not to make your own life more comfortable? Does a musician own his instrument? His music? In his quest for identity, are not his possessions part of him? -yuri
Actually people are driven by neurotransmitters such as dopamine. We do things that make us feel good. A musician does not have to own his or her instrument to enjoy making music.
Thats another funny thing, owning sounds, songs, melodies etc. Cant the novelies of our minds be given to everyone to enjoy must we claim ownership and monetize it? I know this is a tricky topic because it requires imagining a completely different world.... which we really cant. Say i have a garden and i produce more than i can eat, must i say 'its mine if you e ant it you pay me for it or ill be a glutton and stuff my face'. Imagine if you could say, the earth provided me with an overabundance, i will find someone who could enjoy this as well. Im as guilty as anyone in being possessive. If you came and took my Monster and start drinking it, i would get pissed and claim its MINE. I dont like that about me. But if its a friend id gladly share some if not insist they share the enjoyment.
Basically. Maybe not even the concept but the mentality. Why do we have the compulsion to draw a square and say 'everything in this square belongs to me, go draw your own square'. How different might the world look/be if we werent possessive?
That's what I said. You just elaborated on the technicalities. We are driven by instincts we evovled. Dopamine is simply a mechanism of those instincts. You are correct, but it doesn't really say anything about the point. People act on incesntives. Possession is one incentive. -yuri
How much food do you need? Even if you didn't have an abundance, you could hypothetically survive if you shared. You could share till you are on the bare minimum you need. But you would still claim possession of that bare minimum. And its likely you'd want to chose who to share with. How can one eat if one cannot own food or own production of food? Only by taking. -yuri
Possessions and ownership add to the separation inherent in his society. We live in a sort of age of separation (not my original idea) and this is just one facet. What we ought to do is work with the laws of nature and self. Impermanence being one of them, eliminating this "me, mine, no gimme that!" Low level way of being. The thing about it aswell is you must use possession to describe things...atleast in the languages we have come up with here.
I agree. One of the greatest separations is the separation between humans and Mother Earth, as well as the separation from all that is. In other words, we've forgotten the unity that exists between all things.
Precisely, we treat this earth as a playground for our desires regardless of the consequences. As the consequences are not always of physical nature, most will not realize what karma they are putting on themselves. We can only control as much as we are allowed to, how do you know when it's too many trees you've cut on the lot or how many extra cows you've slayed? Heh, ya gotta listen.
I agree and I also want to add that I don't think that Mother Earth is the type of life energy that would judge us for what we do on his/her surface (I'll say her just for ease of conversation). But she's also not the type of life energy that will try to prevent us from destroying ourselves. Then again, who am I to make that assertion