Do you believe in Reincarnation?

Im not arguing im asking questions bro. Idk where i stand on this topic so i have no point to argue. You seem to have a confident position, which if it withstands scrutiny maybe valid.

You said absent a brain there is no consciousness then admitted plants are conscious. So one claim is false unless plants have brains.

 

Also dont we simply respond to stimuli?

I am not hasty to draw conclusions especially in frontier sciences, i have an open mind (i am not suggesting you dont).

 

Your logic is spot on. That contradiction needs to be resolved.

 

I'm not going to argue it. You said yourself that we don't have to provide evidence in the philosophy forum, so I can skip all of that.  I think that a brain is necessary for advanced consciousness which in my opinion must include self awareness. This is another semantic issue, such as the one that we are discussing, because there are complex brains and simple brains and there isn't consciousness and no consciousness. There are different levels such as a plant, a dog, and us. My overall point though is that the atoms and the elements that make us up don't contain anything that makes us "us." It's the way that everything is put together that makes it happen. An arrangement of atoms can produce something that is not conscious at all. An arrangement of atoms can produce something that is. Sorry, I guess I was talking about elements before. I'm tired. Haha. The same thing applies with them. Elements can produce an unconscious or a conscious being. 

 

You disappoint me, constantly harping on others about evidence and logic and you dodge them when confronted. Lost a little respect for you (not that you give a shit lol)

 

I think were all unconsiously connected through something, telethapy if you will. Explains the "vibes" we feel about people. When we die we'll go to this dimension so to speak, its a dimension filled with vibrant pastel colors, positive (and maybe negative depending) vibrations/feelings so strong you can see them. Just an eternal darkness that has so much going on within it that its the brightest thing you have ever experienced. Perhaps theres a way to escape it to be reincarnated whether in this world or another, who knows

 

You know me well sir. I don't give a shit. Why is it that when I ask for evidence you tell me that it's a philosophy forum, and when I decide to finally accept the "rules" you now move the goalposts and tell me that I need to provide evidence? I didn't ask anybody that believes in reincarnation for evidence, because I've been told it's not the Science forum. You guys confuse me. I feel that you just want to argue regardless of subject matter. 

 

Depends on how you define consciousness. The principles that allow for it to manifest as we experience exist already in the fabric of the universe. It doesn't arise as it's constituents already exist, it is just in the complexity of interaction that we experience it as we do, otherwise it is all pervasive. Consciousness is like water, we call it rain and we call it ice in it's different formations, but when it is formed as a cloud we call it consciousness. It's just the degree of its condensation that allows us to become aware of its properties in a different way. Your view of conscious is too human-centric. Science is uncovering how our brain functions and how it is related to our experiences, but consciousness is far more profound than that. It would probably be more accurate to say that the universe is aware from the tiniest particle to the largest self-enclosed system or formation. Why is it aware? Because all things affect other things and all things are affected by things around them. The universe is fractal in a sense, we see the formation of closed systems with a distinct borders and a definite inside vs outside. They must maintain homeostasis to maintain that system. This is simply a reflection of the universe which itself is one enclosed system, but the universe is a true enclosed system that does not interact with anything outside itself. The universe naturally accumulates in bodies, when these bodies become more complex, we can describe them as being more conscious. From a prokaryote to a eukaryote, to a multi-celled organism of increasing complexity. What's the point? Just look at the natural formation of the universe objectively. You will see that there is no point where consciousness arises, that us just us making distinctions. It's one scale and at some point we say it develops into conaciousness. I think this is problematic and very human-centric thinking.

 

I believe DMT has a big part in reincarnation

 

Very good point! I was only teasing about the evidence part, pulling a 'you' if you will. I have said asking for evidence for a philosophical question in philosopical forum is silly (such as evidence for God). This topic toes the narrow line, science is just beginning its exploration in this otherwise metaphysical topic, so there very well could be pertainate evidence, which would be welcome.

My problem with the 'elements arent conscious'part, which i have discussed with others prior to your presence here, has been, how can consciousness arise from unconscious parts? In other words, how can we have a conscious in the whole if consciousness isnt present in the parts? As i said i am undecided here, because in my mind atoms and whatnot dont seem to be conscious, but the logic above is what hinders me.

Here, is an analogy i came up with to think about it. Oxygen and hydrogen combined produces water, with properties completely different from the constituent parts. If consciousness were likened to this, what parts does it require or what parts of a conscious entity could be removed to make it unconscious?

Thats basically where im at.

 

We are made up of atoms, the same atoms that make up the universe of ours. When we die our atoms are recycled. Do we have an energy that is passed on to another body. I dont think so. But at the same time I believe in physics and nature and therefore I don't believe in a god.

 

The part that always gets me is that I don't see why parts have to be conscious in order to create consciousness. It seems like you are assuming the conclusion when you say this. It's equivalent to people saying, the universe had to come from something. Well, no it didn't. We don't know what happened before the big bang, and according to the laws of physics, that "something" could have always existed. In my opinion, we can't say that unconscious parts can't spawn consciousness unless we know that to be true. I think consciousness is simply a side effect of evolution. Some beings gradually evolved to be able to respond to stimuli and we can see this evolution occurring at different levels. I think that a lot of times too, people are looking for a set answer. In my opinion, life isn't always like that. Sometimes there aren't set answers. It depends on where you want to start classifying things as consciousness. The parts that are required to form it are the same as the parts required to form everything in the universe. The key is the way that they evolved to form. Atoms can come together to form an unconscious being that evolved that way, or they can come together to form a human brain in all of it's complexity and spawn consciousness. The could come together to form a jellyfish, which doesn't have a brain but possesses cellular memory and is conscious depending on how you want to define it. 
 
In other words, the ingredients, or the pieces, that you are trying to label that form consciousness are the same ingredients that are present in unconscious behavior.  

 

Good points! Im just saying, if the constituent parts can add up to a conscious being such as ourselves, perhaps each part is conscious to some degree. Now, i dont know to what minute degree that would be, clearly not the same extent we are conscious.

Also i am not asserting that unconscious parts cannot create a conscious whole, im just not sure if its sound to assume thats even possible. Time to do some reading!

 

Consciousness as we experience it as humans is the result of the same principle that is at work with the most fundamental forms of life. The only difference is in the degree of complexity.

 

Death isn't the end because you cannot destroy energy.

Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

 

Some interesting stuff on truthism. I dont think its and open and shut case by any means. I wish he would say 'possible correlation" instead of proof lol.

 

You don't speak on what's said. You fail to take note and your response is irrelevant.

 

We don't have evidence that the brain produces DMT man. That's just a myth that has continued to be spread in new age circles. A PRECURSOR to DMT that is thousands of times weaker than DMT HAS been found in the pineal gland though, and that's where the myth started. At this point, we know that the pineal gland releases Melatonin and regulates sleep cycles. That's a far cry far being a magical eye though. It's an endocrine gland. We have quite a few different endocrine glands. I don't believe that rocks or crystals are alive. I'm not going to ask anybody to present evidence. I've learned my lesson on that one in the past in relation to the philosophy forums, but I'll have to respectfully disagree.