moving into sunlight and seed production

you have to acclimate it to the sun, only give it a few hours of direct then move to a more shaded area. Google cannabis seeds, when they look like that they are ready. They will also fall out on their own as well.

 

Seeds can take 3-6 weeks to ripen/mature. IMO, best practice is to wait till they are breaking the calyx walls and then check their maturity. Some strains will break the calyx wall before seed maturity, others won't until they are mature.

Once they break the calyx wall if they are mature they will be dark grey or black. The color will lighten a bit when they dry, then they should be good to go for planting.

 

Markus is right, they are fully formed roughly 2 to 3 weeks after pollination. The mid section seeds seem to ripen sooner than the cola seeds, but this info is anecdotal at best. Beans might degrade somewhat if left on the vine too long, but if you pull them early you're grabbing alot of essential oils downside being they need an extra cure once taken to guarantee zero moisture/fungus once stored. Going for seed a week out of harvest seems reasonable unless you are attempting quantity. Its just that you sacrifice alleged viability by leaving them on too long or letting them vine cure when a plant is late in flower and lacking senescence.

 

 
"Beans might degrade somewhat if left on the vine too long" - How?
 
"you sacrifice alleged viability by leaving them on too long or letting them vine cure when a plant is late in flower and lacking senescence."
 
Im really trying to figure out exactly how seeds could possibly degrade by "leaving them on the plant too long"?? Really?
 
j

 

The common routine is to allow seeds to darken and fall. The seed isn't being grown to smoke, so these habits of darkened seeds coincide with harvest for flower, not harvest for seed. Seeds are mature before the comparitive flowers we seek to ripen for smoke. The darkened seeds which are claimed to be ripe by sign of darkness are just seeds further along in oxidation.
 
True the pod is protecting them, but this is in the context of nature, we could debate that fauna, birds and insects know when these seeds are good to go. So if you have plants outdoors and you can see an increase of predatorial activity prior to full trichome development it might also be a sign these seeds are ripe, we all prefer ripe fruit. The trichomes are dense on calyces to protect from predators, this doesn't mean the seed isn't mature prior to maximum trichome development. I would debate if the majority of seed isn't already mature before most trichomes are cloudy and there is risk to pulling seed at this state because they are more vulnerabale to mold when so fresh, but if properly dried after taken you approach a seed at prime maturity before oxidation begins.
 
The seed isn't exactly "degrading" in the context of making a seed unviable. My point is if one is mindful of the freshest point, you stand to store seeds which are taken and stored at peak ripeness as opposed to seed which has oxidized. Theoretically, if taken at peak ripeness (not beyond maturity) seed viability percentages increase giving us seeds which last longer in storage. I welcome dialogue regarding all this and it deserves discussion. I accept my own ignorance in this regard if others can provide proof otherwise. I notice quite a few folks taking their seed anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks after pollination that is assuming they are pollinating at the 3 week mark after flowering begins. Its also noteworthy that some of the current habits are born of those who observe and document seed harvest in an open pollination setting, not a controlled environment where females are pollinated by hand.

 

There is zero chance of cannabis seeds "degrading" or "losing viability" in the life cycle of an annual cannabis plant. Mother Nature has got this down pat by now and for us to think we know any better to be able to select when the seeds are at their peak ripeness is silly IMO - not when we are talking a time difference of weeks. In nature seeds fall out on their own and I will suggest that this does not happen until the end of each season - for a reason. Removing them any earlier will not make them last any longer in storage. Several years ago I grew out seeds that had been in cold storage for 30 years, since 1984. I'd say that is long enough.
 
j

 

We're not only talking about how long we can keep them, but the consistency of germination. I won't argue taxonomy and why or who believes this is an annual, but there have been plenty of instances of seed taken mid to late flower which germinate perfectly well. I never mentioned fighting nature, if anything I am speaking to the mindfulness of nature. If you have to bend the context of what I'm saying without understanding the context in which I explained myself in terms of viability then dialogue won't retain give and take. You are convinced I am saying, "Unless you take these seeds earlier than what is general knowledge your seeds are unviable." I am not saying this at all.
 
You're avoiding the substance of what I have said which is the peak point of a seed. Simply put, seeds mature before we feel the plant is to be harvested for smoke and before nature withers and there is no life left to support its defense mechanism. Seeds oxidize within their pod, this is nature we cannot fight this degredation. If you feel that taking them 2 to 3 weeks later shows no difference in your own system or that even allowing seed to cure with bud is a good idea, I'm not going to tell you its wrong. Its your thing, do what you're gonna do.

 

 
If I'm getting this correctly, you're saying that seeds mature before the flowers, correct? I believe you're also saying that leaving them on the plant for those extra several weeks will degrade the seeds - correct?
 
so - the solution is what?
 
j
 
I also wanted to ask about this -
 
"They (the seeds) are fully formed 2-3 weeks after pollination"
 
Ive never seen seeds mature that quickly, at least not viable, stable seeds. Have you ever grown seeds that were harvested 14 days, or even 21 days after pollination?
 
j
 

 

I want to advocate A/B testing and controls as best I can within dialogue like this. I'm not saying seeds are degraded to the point of being useless, the big picture if we're being objective is grabbing stock when maturation is prime, but not beyond which is essentially oxidation. Yes the seeds are fully formed prior to a plant lacking senescence and showing 30%+ amber trichomes. I can't tell if you want me to say to people, "Your seeds are degraded and useless if you harvest them late.", because its really not what I am getting at. Should be clear by this point what I mean and I'm not being disrespectual of your love and relationship with cannabis nor the time you have spent accumulating knowledge.
 
Beans do indeed behave as I have mentioned. I do concur taking them too soon begs poor results, so we can agree on an A/B at this point approaching a control. The curiousity to begin with is: WHEN IS TOO SOON VS. WHEN IS TOO LATE? Lies are pointless in botany, I'm not here to set people back, toot horns or monkey wrench the progress of science as relates cannabis. I'm here same as you, with love.

 

 
"When is it too soon vs when is it too late?"
 
Well, I do know if seeds are taken too early, when they are not fully formed and mature that quite obviously germination rates are compromised. I have yet to see negative results from waiting until the seed pods swell and at least start to open, which is when nature has designed for seeds to drop to the ground to keep the species alive and well the next season - and which happens when flowers ripen and mature. I've never seen or heard of any type of an issue by just waiting until all is mature so why try and take them any earlier than that. To be perfectly honest, and I am no breeder of course but the several times that I have made seeds on purpose it made sense to me, and after talking to quite a few others that have done so, to simply wait until I am absolutely sure that the seeds have matured completely and there is no question of the seeds being viable. In fact I've waited that extra week or two just to be sure of viability. If the gardener pollinates his female flowers somewhere around week 3 or even week 4 of flower, at a point where female calyxes are starting to form well and have some substance, that waiting another 4-6 weeks, which is the time period it takes cannabis seeds to fully form and mature (I need to argue that 2-3 weeks is simply not long enough), that this will put you at 8-10 weeks of flower at which point both flowers and seeds are mature (and viable). In my opinion taking seeds off of the plant earlier than that does not make sense and I do not believe that there will be any kind of "degrading" going on if you have healthy plants to begin with. Why not wait until seed pods begin to open naturally at maturity like nature intended? 
 
J

 

I respect your program and plenty follow the same path. I don't recall claiming a majority percentile of beans taken 2 to 3 weeks after pollination are good to go. Myself and another participant in the thread do however realize seeds which are fully formed and indeed they will germinate. Is it wise to take them so early, I think I have remarked twice saying no. So I understand your stance and the safety or reason you're applying as to waiting the full life cycle of the plant. I've never said you or anyone else is wrong for doing so, but we should be reasonable enough to accept that others have come to different conclusions and likely there are many who upon their findings aren't sharing their knowledge. Those findings point to peak ripeness and not fruit falling from the vine. What fascinates me in any debate beyond when to harvest your seed is the classification of cannabis and its comparative to other species whose seed is harvested in a like manner.
 
The cannabaceae family is small, members have few common characteristics; some trees and others herbaceous. Like I said A/B and control testing is priority. First hand knowledge helps, but I want to see the bigger picture and how it compares to others in the family. Rather than only look to cannabis farmers, relying on 30 years of breeder savvy for their habits which are approaching industrial behavior, I think it wise to look at relatives like hops and its treatment, seeing as the business lifespan and larger manufacturing base might offer sound practices. I do agree its rather weird when all we're talking about is a couple of weeks, but we have covered alot of bases which is cool.
 
I think most farmers would answer, "Its never too late, beans outlast flower so why discuss it?". I can understand such logic and its tendency towards the absolute, but it begs scrutiny in that a wealth of documented knowledge retainig some semblence of science as regards cannabis seed harvesting does not exist.