Religion and Government control

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Killahi, May 5, 2015.

  1. Personally, I believe that Christiantiy, Judaism and Islam were all fabricated by various governments at the time in order to create a "God" that had divine rule over its population. Either that or governments were very quick to exploit these new religions.

    Historically leaders are very quick to announce their divine right to the throne and a happy to remind people of the super natural consequence of failure to comply with the Law - see Hell.

    Even today the Queen of England still technically has Devine right to rule from God and I'm sure she is not the only ruler. Religion still plays a powerful role in politics today (albeit much less than historically) and is still a powerful tool in population control- cult like Christianity groups in America.

    I'm interested to listen to what religious people have to say to this. Do you agree that religion is used to control people? Do you agree but believe this is blasphemous use of your religion?

    Thanks
     
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  2. I don't mean to make it sound like I believe the Queen has any actual political control. Just an example of a person very high up in society with a "divine" right.
     
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  3. I tend to think its the latter, at least with Christianity. I have no evidence for this but i think its possible Jesus started a cultural revolution that was undermined in the years after his death. I would venture to say by the time Constantine was around it was fully delegitimized.

    Ive wanted to dig into this but seems like it would require more work than i care to afford.
     
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  4. Felipe Coronel (Immortal Technique)
     
    John Henrik Clarke
     
  5. I guess that the former sounds a bit too far fetched. The other is mainly supported by the fact there is a 300 year gap between Jesus and the Roman adoption of Christianity into the empire. Important to remember the obvious opposition they had to Christianity earlier (ruining their already pre-established religion of control). Seems to indicate it took 300 years for them to realise that their religion was no longer effective any more.
     
     
     
    The 4th Branch? Amazing song just added it to my soundcloud. Thank you
     
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  6. #7 Stahbz, May 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2015
    Christianity and similar Abrahamic religions have been heavily exploited and distorted over time, but even some of the basic tenets can reveal the true intentions of those who created/propagated it.
     
    • God is completely and absolutely omnipotent and will always be infinitely superior to you. (Disempowering)
    • The word of God is Law and you must obey the every word of your Lord. (Disempowering again - see any similarities to the medieval caste system?)
    • If you disobey the word of your Lord you will suffer eternal punishment. (Fear-based control)
     
    Not to mention the blatant contradictions that are immediately visible to a critically-thinking observer (something Christianity/Catholicism/organized religion counters with Blind Faith and Group Mentalities):
     
    1. God made you in his image.
    2. Jesus died in order to save you from sin.
    3. At birth, you are still born a filthy sinner who needs Christianity in order to be saved.
     
    or see my favorite George Carlin quote:
     
    “Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time... But He loves you! He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise -- somehow just can't handle money!”
     
    As I said earlier you can very easily draw connections from Christianity to medieval caste systems where Serfs (i.e. You) are lowly and worthless peasants who only live to serve their Lord (i.e. "The Lord" God). I mean, come on! 
     
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  7. It's not all just control though is it?

    If religion was a way to control people, we would be living much different lives, maybe 300 years ago or whatever it was made up to control people, who's alive now or who holds any remnants of what actually existed 300 years ago? No-one. Any religious control that people have now is self Inflicted.

    People follow religion because they are scared. Or they believe it is a guideline to peace, happiness, safe sanction in the afterlife and so on.

    "It's in the eye of the beholder"

    You make what you want to believe, you chose what you want, you act as you wish, you can choose to believe religion is just a conspiracy, or someone else's sanctuary.

    I'm not religious I just won't believe that before any of us knew what religion was, someone planned to rule the world with it, people are still struggling with guns let alone books....




    SomeoneWhoNeedsSomeHelp
     
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  8. What time is it?

    For all of the advances we've made scientifically, the CHURCH is still in control of telling people what time it is. When you control the ability to define "what time it is", you control a person's consciousness who follows your system. And most of the world follows the Gregorian system.

    It is a calendar quite unlike most other calendars from antiquity simply because it is a calendar that is based upon physical evidence ONLY.

    But it is a powerful one.

    Go tell somebody that today is not Wednesday or better yet tell them there is no such thing as "Wednesday" and see how they react.

    If you're gonna control a flock, brainwashing tools like the Gregorian Calensar are necessary.


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  9. For instance, the Greeks had a dual understanding of time.

    They measured time in a linear fashion like we do. They called this particular measure of time as "Chronos", as in chronologically seaquenced events.

    But they also had a non-linear perspective of time called "Kairos". This is the aspect of time that has been scrubbed out of our consciousness by the business model calendar we follow today.


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  10. I'm not so sure about that. I'm an atheist and I've had wonderful Thursdays, for example, all without needing to believe in Thor. I obviously use a Calendar and it requires no attachment to religion at all. Many brainwashing techniques are utilized in religion, but I don't think that they calendar is one of them. By the way, the name Wednesday was derived from Woden and Mercury. I recognize that it's Wednesday without believing in either. I don't feel that the majority of society, regardless of religious belief or lack thereof, even knows where the Gregorian calendar comes from. 
     
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  11. It does not matter if you're an Athiest or a dentist or a pianist. All consciousness revolves around the adopted calendar, which is calibrated to the mundane act of our planet corkscrewing its way around the Sun. Physical evidence only.And this is coming from THE CHURCH. Excuse me, but I thought only scientists were materialists....hmmmm....looks like a shuck and jive move to me!

    Let's say you have a machine that's not working properly. The problem is a systemic problem and you need to fix it, BUT, you are only allowed access to one part of the system while the other part of the system you are kept completely ignorant about. Chances are, without access to that part of the system, you'll have no chance whatsoever in mastering the broken system. And so it goes wth our practical approach to time. We're only aware of its linear aspect.


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  12. Consciousness does not revolve around the adopted calendar at all. Even if I were to suspend believe for a second and assume that your premise were true, most people in society have no idea where the calendar comes from. The calendar at this point in time is simply a way to organize our lives. If your point is legit, then like I said earlier, you must be controlled by Mercury or Odin (Woden) because it is Wednesday. I'm sure that it has no influence on you whatsoever though, because that would be absurd. 
     
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  13. Oh?

    Here's an experiment you can try to see if this is true or not.

    Step 1 - don't focus on you're next mortgage payment or when it is due. Become unaware of it.

    Step 2 - wait and see what happens.

    I need to be at work at a particular time on particular days.

    I need to be there for my family at particular times on particular days.

    I never said our linear perspective of time wasn't a valid perspective to have, but that it's not the only aspect of time.


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  14. #15 VaWaveRider, May 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2015
    You are moving the goalposts. You are attempting to discuss a few of your opinions at the same time. You stated that the church produced the calendar and we are therefore controlled by the church. I disputed that, and now you are ignoring it and talking about how "time is linear." 
     
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  15. Yeah, the CHURCH is the entity that's responsible for telling people what time it is in our modern society. So you need to pay your mortgage at the appropriate CHURCH sanctioned time. And seeing that as you pointed out that few people are even aware of where this system comes from, I'd say that's some pretty deep seated control happening there.


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  16.  
    The conspiracy bit I agree is far fetched. I was more just throwing it in there. I more focused on the fact that religion was and is still used as a powerful tool to control and manipulate the minds of others. Humans like saying we have free will and ultimately it is our decisions that lead to our actions. This is true to a certain extent but you have to remember wars are fought over spiritual beliefs *Cough cough* Islamic State. People are willing to die for their religion which is why it such a powerful tool and one which I'm sure early governments were very quick to exploit. To conclude I agree the idea religions were founded by governments as a way to control is far fetched, however I strongly believe many adopted the idea ie the Roman empire after they saw its potential.
     
    On a side note fuck you Vodafone UK. Grasscity is content controlled and therefore I cannot access it whilst I'm out using mobile data.
     
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  17. Whilst I agree the origins of the modern calendar are obviously Christian, I don't see how any other form of linear time keeping would differ. Basically all civilizations had their own methods of time keeping most of which are in some way similar to the ones used today. Also, if the Calendar was such a vital role in the control scheme then how does this explain what happened in France? I'm referring to the French Republican calender. Why would the Government attempt to change something that worked so well in their scheme? It was a direct attempt to de-Christianize the calendar by the very government which seeks to control. Granted it was a miserable failure but that was because the people hated it not the Government. 
     
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  18. That's a HELL of a stretch. The calendar even incorporates days of the week, and months that were stolen from religions other than Christianity. I'm not a fan of the church myself, but at this point, it's just a calendar. Also, me paying my mortgage at the time when my mortgage company says that I need to benefits the church in no way at all. Than again, maybe I'm attempting to deny it all because I know Friday is coming. After all, it was named after Frigg. Surely, if we use the days of the week we are being controlled by all of the primitive people that believed in Norse gods, right? By the fallacious logic that you are utilizing, it must be true. 
     
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  19. Firstly that is one of the greatest quotes I have ever seen. Thank you [​IMG] .
    Secondly, I think it is hard to establish where exactly religion stopped becoming just a belief and started becoming a tool. What I mean by this is there is blurred line between a person in a position of power saying "I believe in God. Therefore I will enact his will and "God? This guy seems useful to me. I will say I believe in God and am merely enacting his will". I honestly want to believe the first early adopters where in category A before and at some point someone was corrupted by category B but I think it will be impossible for anyone to tell me a date or time when this happened though I would like to hear any theories!
     
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