Hi, thanks for taking a look. This will be my first run with organics, I am currently composting subcool's recipe for a super soil because my friend said it would be a good introduction. Here is what i followed, plus organic powdered cal/mag as recommended for RO water by subcool in this post. I am using Roots Organics as the base soil and it will cook for about two months. I am getting some ACT from the local hydro store tomorrow (free) and will add that to the mix. While i was at the hydro store one day an NPK Industries rep was offering some samples from their "RAW" line and I picked up some potassium, kelp, and cane molasses i intend to supplement with along side some ACT now and again. I am going to grow DJ Shorts True Blueberry by Delta-9 Seed Company from clone (4) in 7 gal pots using the SCROG method. I will be using a 4x4x7 tent with a 1000 watt set-up (which i may run at 750), in-line fan, 16 in oscillating fan, 20lb CO2 tank, humidifier if necessary, temp/humidity/co2 monitor, and the Apollo 2. I plan to start between 4/15 and 4/20 and I am in Southern California. I intend to veg for aprox. 6 weeks; ~4 weeks in 1 gal pots in Roots Organics soil then ~2 weeks in the 7 gal pots with the amended super soil in the bottom, filled in with more roots organics. For the first ~4 weeks I would like to use 500 watts then switch to 750 watts for the final ~2 weeks of veg. I will be giving them nothing but RO H2O and a foliar misting of kelp once a week. I would like to avoid using 1000 watts for more than 30 days so i intend to use 750 watts for the first 30 days of flower and finish the crop off under the full 1000 (the projected flowering time for this strain is 56 days). I intend to stop foliar feeding after 1 week of flower and give the plants an ACT once a week, depending on how they react, while continuing with the RO H2O and occasionally cane molasses. I think i remember hearing that the potassium is best suited for the first 2-4 weeks of flower but ill have to double check on that. I don't plan on flushing. PLEASE let me know if there are any tips you can give me or potential problems you think i may encounter. I tried to be as detailed as possible but let me know if there is something else i can add. I will post pictures but the reason i am waiting is because im moving so there is much to be done b4 i can set up. edit: From my other thread: I am in need of about 15 more gallons of base soil and was thinking about making my own following this recipe. There is a local farm shop i can go to and get some OMRI listed organic compost, unblended/unamended and screened, for $6 per 50lbs so i say why not. Do you think that will suit me well, or can you point me in another direction? I am currently using Roots Organics in my super soil, should I just stick with that? The ingredients are: Coco fiber, coarse peat moss, perlite, pumice, composted virgin forest material, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal, fish bone meal, soybean meal, green sand, alfalfa meal. \n1 more question... does it matter if EWC are screened or not? the local farm store only has unscreened but offers the compost in either variety.
Here's my problem with Subcool and his "super soil" recipes - if you're going to collect some ingredients and mix up a soil then why on earth would you ever want to use an (expensive) commercial bagged soil as a component? Problem #2 is not knowing hoe much of what ingredient or the quality of the ingredients are even in these soils? So - you end up guessing. My 2 cents but anyhow best of luck to you and your garden! J
saying you dont like his recipie doesn't help much. I understand bagged base soils are not popular but this ship has sailed and if u even read my post i talk about making a base soil which u apparently have no comment on. and im not guessing. this is what subcool uses as his base so his recipe is taylored to this specific base essentially. u made that post after reading the first line and it serves no functional purpose.. Is there a suggestion in there somewhere?Looking for someone to put themselves in my shoes with their knowledge if possible, thanks.
"and im not guessing. this is what subcool uses" What I meant by "guessing" is that nobody knows how much kelp, how much worm castings, etc etc is in the Roots Organic soil, nor what kind of quality the ingredients were in the first place. Maybe I didnt word it properly - what I meant was that there is a better option, and that is simply starting from scratch. This way you'd know exactly what was in the soil - instead of guessing what was in the Roots bag. As is their right, a company like Roots is out to make money and simply isn't going to be using the good stuff or probably use enough of the mediocre components. It sounds like you've already bought it though so no matter what it's a way to jump into soil gardening. It's not that I don't like his recipe (well, I guess I dont) but there are just much better , less expensive options that will give you a lot better soil when you're done going through all the effort of making a soil. I also wonder what the "Organic Cal Mag" is for. Just trying to help. I certainly didn't mean to come across negatively. J
yes, nobody knows the quantity or quality but what is known is the reaction with his listed amendments. i'm sure he didn't hit the nail on the head the first time and adjusted accordingly based on his observations over the course of several runs. If he felt something was missing im sure he added it. but this is exactly the kind of conversation i DO NOT want to get into. I am in no way advocating or promoting supcools formula and am totally open to all suggestions. you aren't doing anything beneficial and u've yet to make any recommendations and furthermore i still don't think u've read past the first line. You are completely missing the purpose of this thread and are speaking in vague innuendos. I am totally open to suggestions and constructive criticism but frankly u are not doing anything helpful. I am not trying to be a dik but you sound like ur caught up in a pretentious perspective. What I am asking for is for someone to read my post completely without getting ADD and put themselves in my shoes. Im not looking to get into an argument here, what I am more concerned with is my gear, plans for veg/flower , supplementation, and the final 15-20 gallons of base soil i still need which u would know about had u read my o.p. and btw the cal/mag is because of the RO, subcool doesn't use RO. The amendments that do contain cal or mag do not have it in high enough concentrations from what people using the recipe with RO have said. I included a link in the op with the explanation in the sentence where i say its because of RO. I feel like i have to compost my thread to make the content more readily available to you... I have so many questions in my thread and am completely open to any constructive criticism, just very frustrating to get 2 posts with absolutely no substance
Wow man, it seems as though Jerry is REALLY trying to help you, but you refuse. Let's see what's up so far... You come on the GCO forum, post someone else's recipe, and ask if you "should keep it", or switch to something else. Then, you post another mix, also not from this community, asking the same thing. Jerry points out that he is uncomfortable recommending either, and you call him ADD. Here is what I think. Jerry is right. He has many, many, MANY good posts and directions, given to many new and old gardeners around here. Take his advice and rethink. Your setup is legit, gear wise, as far as I can tell, so why take the shortcut route with bagged commercial product? You seem detailed enough, use it to your advantage and build it yourself, IMO. If you must stick with the original recipe, it looks fine, but why did you ad cal/mag? If you really want a good mix, from that same website, scroll down to Coot's mix. That's pretty much what folks around here are doing. Take it or leave it. Above all else though, respect these fine folks. And good luck!
ok let me clear some stupid stuff up for you. god i hate forums because of bullsh!t nonsense like this.... If Jerry was REALLY trying to help me maybe he would have answered at least one of my questions or made a specific recommendation. im not asking if i should keep subcools recipe nor did i ever insinuate that. quote where u think im saying that. a SIDE question that i put was if a recipe i found for a BASE soil was a good one or if someone could point me in another direction. and what does it matter if a recipie originated from here or not? what, everything has to be in house and all things of another origin are off limits? stfu seriously. i never wanted to focus on the soil but u organic snobs are making it the focus. jerry is right about what? he expressed an opinion and gave no alternatives. he didnt even comment on what i had listed. he essentially came in here, ignored all my questions and said i dont like ur soil. totally off topic and unproductive. I'm refusing to let him help me? lol i feel like im pulling teeth. AND WHERE DOES HE SAY HES UNCOMFORTABLE RECOMMENDING ANYTHING LOL. get off his nuts dude, he doesn't need his little follower to stick up for him im not taking shortcuts im following a recipe that was recommended by a friend for an introduction into organic growing like it says in line 1. in fact wouldn't undercooking a soil be cutting corners? i dont have a month + if u read my post. and ur seriously asking why i added cal mag? i put it in the op with a link explaining it then i answered jerrys same question in a post right above you. you people clearly dont read and ur not focusing on anything i want to focus on.
You asked for advice. And one of the most respected and knowledgable members on the forum tried to help. If you can't accept advice that you don't like than don't ask for advice. And no I didn't read your entire post either. Here's our advice. Be more humble, accept help even if you don't like he answer. Ditch subcool's mix. Start reading Easy soil mix for beginner's and No Till Gardening (just the first 12 pages)
Dude - you seriously need to burn one. "Pretentious" and "Organic snobs"? Really? I thought I was quite pleasant... Lol Whatever. Good day! J
lol so many fan boys. I asked for advice on array of very specific and detailed things, none of which he touched on. it's not that I "can't accept it" - which sounds like u thing im an advocate for pre packaged soil, which i thought i cleared up earlier I am not.. I even ask for advice on a recipe I was thinking about using for the other 15-20 gallons, for the third time, which no one has chosen to comment on yet. at least u admit u don't read. God bless Merica. I'm not ditching this soil I am already composting... its a money thing and a time thing.... stay focused here jesus christ... that is totally out of the question for right now and i think it is totally absurd we are focusing on this lol. I dont plan on using this for the next run... as i stated in line 1 this was chosen because it was recommended by a friend as an intro to organic growing... i used chems b4....
u are undoubtedly a super chill dude. Things would never have gotten to this proportion if this convo was private between me and you. but u have to admit u essentially came in here, answered none of my specific and detailed questions, basically said i dont like ur soil, and gave the vague innuendo of "better choices" as an alternative when i list a base soil I am considering in the OP. I am starting my run 4/15 do you think that is enough time to cook my base? cooking another super soil mix for this run is absolutely out of the question but i definitely want to hear what you think is better for future runs. If I use 15-20 gal for the base (excluding the 10gal used in the super soil mix) would you feel this is an adequate mix, supplemented with the ingredients listed in the op? Of those I plan to incorporate silica, amino acids, fulvic acid/yucca/kelp foliar feeding once weekly, as well as b vitamins when stress is eminent also. What I would really like addressed is everything else after what u guys are focusing on in the op; would it be alright to veg for 4 weeks from rockwool rooted clones in 1 gal pots then switch to 7gal pots for 2 final veg weeks with the amended super soil in the bottom? are my power plans realistic/recommended? etc. I realize i am long winded but i do this so that this form of communication can be as efficient as possible. I don't want you to have to ask questions I could have told you with some foresight. Please take the time to read the entirety of my posts and try to see the big picture GCO, thanks. I started this run with no time to do research so I am going into this run based off of the recommendation(s) of a friend as an intro to organic growing. During this run I plan to learn as much as possible and have a ton of books on the way so that I can be as prepared as possible for my next run. here are some of the books i'm getting: Teaming with Microbes: The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web, Revised Edition Teaming with Nutrients: The Organic Gardener's Guide to Optimizing Plant Nutrition True Living Organics: The Ultimate Guide to Growing All-Natural Marijuana Indoors The Cannabis Encyclopedia: the definitive guide to cultivation & consumption of medical marijuana along with a few others
ya i should have known to chose my words more carefully? lol.... the problem here is no one is reading
Ok. So not many of us have a lot of experience building a soil by starting with a base. There are a few, but I'm not one of them, and I don't believe jerry is, either. Our advice is to, next time, build everything from scratch; I mean, you're basically buying all the materials needed to build one from scratch anyway. The benefit of totally from scratch is the ultimate control and knowledge you have of everything going into it. Using a base mix, you don't know really what's in it and in what amount, so it's really guesswork from the beginning. There are many wonderful grows that have been documented on these forums using bagged soils; I even believe there's a Subcool superoil thread floating around that may answer some of your questions. Reverse osmosis water isn't really necessary in organic gardening, because the impurities found in tapwater are easily dealt with by the life in the soil. Those microorganisms are really powerful and spetacular when you start looking at what happens in the soil. Many of us water our plants straight from the tap, some people will aerate or let their water sit out to help evaporate out chlorine and other contaminants, but this isn't necessary. So the Cal-Mag is a moot point because we don't use RO water. I'd just suggest using tap water. This seems to be similar to having kids, usually people are super paranoid and oveprotective with their first kid, but after that they learn things are a lot more resilient than they thought and let their 2nd kid eat worms and mudpies etc... The ACT starts to get a little redundant since instead of adding nutrient value to the soil, you're adding microorganisms which should already be proliferating and in great supply if you maintain your soil decently. I mean, it doesn't hurt to jumpstart the life, but I really don't think it should be something used ritualistically. I would invest my time into looking at things like Malted Barley for an Enzyme tea, and kelp and alfalfa teas for the nutrients and growth hormones they can provide your soil/plant. We don't really stick to the NPK/difference for flower and veg. We build a very balanced, rich soil and allow the plant to take/use whatever it needs. You could topdress with some EWC and kelp at your light timing switch if you'd like. Compost/humus is the most important part of our mix so it really doesn't pay to skimp on that, $6 for 50lbs does seem like a steal, but you get what you paid for. Maybe you could look around craigslist for something local to you? That link you posted for the base soil mix, I would disregard, either make your 'super soil' or nothing, don't make a soil that you then use as a base to build another soil, lol. I have 2 mixes 1 for seeds that's 1/3 VC, 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 aeration, and a little kelp and lime; my other mix is a 'supersoil' mix based on this: http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1116550-easy-organic-soil-mix-beginners.html I would recommend, along with most people here, just building a soil mix from scratch(wiht no base) using a guide like that, or like this from the site you link: I'm really starting to think unscreened vermicompost may have more benefits than screened EWC, I think the microbiology is more diverse, so I'd just get the unscreened if I were you. Well...depending on how many castings are in it, lol, if it's like 10% castings I'd say hell no.
really appreciate this post I found free "Composted Aged horse manure" on craigslist as well as free mushroom compost. seems like i can get it easily for free around here. Is there a specific kind of humus/compost i should look for?
You're a really nice avatar stevebomb There's so much to say. I think you're good to go. Good luck mate. Bountiful harvests....