There are 3 pleasure states: negative (hopelessness), neutral (anhedonia), and positive (feeling pleasure). The negative state of pleasure (depression), depression is also a natural response by evolution to discourage our survival aside from it being something such as a chemical imbalance or the result of a brain abnormality. It warns us when something is going wrong in our lives which is the reason why we become depressed when something bad happens in our lives such as the loss of a loved one, etc. When we are encouraged for survival, that would be defined as having genuine good perceptions in life such as to want to live and make the best of our lives, help others, etc. This encouragement can only be defined through our pleasure since it is only our feelings that genuinely encourage and discourage our survival. They are the only things that genuinely make us perceive our lives as either being good and worth living or as bad and not worth living at all. But if you are in a state of anhedonia (absence of pleasure), then this should also tell you that your life is not worth living at all either since how we normally function as human beings would be through relying on our perception of good to make our lives good and worth living. That neutral perception should then send a depressive signal to your brain and then make you and your life bad and of truly even less worth now. As I said before, in a state of anhedonia, our good and bad perceptions are not genuine and is just our mind's irrational way of fooling ourselves into thinking that we are having genuine good and bad perceptions without having any pleasure or suffering in our lives at the moment. I said that our encouragement for survival in life can only be defined by having genuine good perceptions. Therefore, since depression discourages our survival, then this means that we cannot genuinely perceive us and our lives as being good and worth living while in a state of significant depression since depression shuts down our good perceptions. Therefore, depression shuts down our good perceptions in a negative sense in that we would have bad perceptions, anhedonia simply neutralizes our perceptions in which we neither genuinely perceive our lives as being good or bad without pleasure and suffering, and pleasure is what defines our genuine good perceptions in life. When a person is depressed, he/she might say to his/herself in a depressive mood (tonality) that his/her life is still good and worth living. He/she might very well continue on to pursue his/her dreams and goals in life even while still feeling depressed. But those good perceptions are all decoys without our pleasure as I've said before. The person's depression has shut down his/her genuine good perceptions in life. But he/she is now doing nothing more than just simply saying to his/herself that his/her life is still good and worth living anyway and just forcing his/herself to live life anyway. So now this person is just simply being fooled by words and phrases alone when there is no genuine good perception at all from those words and phrases while he/she is in a state of depression. On one side of the spectrum you have people who are so severely depressed that they don't want to do anything who find no good value in their lives. They can hardly function and can hardly want to do things in their lives at all. These types of people are so severe that they can never bring themselves to make the best of their lives and such. These types of people need electric shock treatment. But on the other side of the spectrum you have people who are so happy and excited in life that they are doing all sorts of great things in life. So based on that, you can clearly see how our level of pleasure defines our level of good perception in life. But even if it were somehow a proven fact that you and your life are truly good even in a state of depression/anhedonia, then what good is that going to do for you? What is the use of you and your life being good if you are not even allowed to genuinely perceive it as being good? Now our perceptions do define how we feel. But it's our feelings that make those said perceptions genuinely good or bad only from the perspective of those feelings alone and not from the perspective of those perceptions (thoughts) alone which are all neutral in of themselves as I've said before. So it's just how we feel independent of our thoughts that genuinely makes us and our lives good or bad. I also realize that there is one other emotion which would be empathy. There are also 3 states of empathy as well: negative (in which you feel bad such as you feeling sorry for hurting someone else), neutral (no empathy in which one might also just simply help others out anyway through just thoughts and such alone), and positive (which would be a feeling of pleasure in which you feel good for helping someone else). Here again, the negative state defines us and our lives as being bad and genuinely defines our perceptions as bad, the neutral defines us and our lives as being neither good or bad and our perceptions as being neither good or bad without our pleasure, and the positive state is what genuinely defines us and our lives as being genuinely good and defines our perceptions as being genuinely good. In conclusion, I am making these arguments to try and help find better cures and treatments for anhedonia and depression. If people would realize that pleasure and suffering are the only true good and bad things in life, then they would be much more inclined to find better treatments and a cure. Too many people are just accepting of suffering due to them thinking that they are still good people even with much suffering and/or an absence of pleasure in their lives. But I wish to change this mindset so that people would then truly realize once and for all the pleasure and suffering really are the only true good and bad things in life. Not only am I trying to find better treatments and cures for depression and anhedonia, but also for suffering in general. My hedonistic values would also encourage others to find better treatments and cures for suffering in general as well. This would also even include mortality since living in an eternal blissful life of no suffering is the one and only greatest life there is and is the one and only thing that would make you the greatest person.
First, evolution says no such thing. Don't project your particular ideas onto evolutionary theory. Second, you should put the last paragraph first so that people have some idea of what you're talking about. Lastly, this is incorrect regardless.
Isn't it bad to lie? Like when you make several threads going on and on about things only being good, bad, or neutral.. and then you say you're making your final one.. when you really had no plans on making it your final one? My Final and Most Convincing Argument for Hedonism Wouldn't it be good to stick to your word and stop making seemingly pointless threads over and over?
I don't understand your point. Most people already seek pleasure. It is important to not endulge excessively at the cost of others though -yuri
I'm starting to think that the OP might be a Hedonist. EDIT; If 'pleasure' refers to every good feeling, then the message of the thread is that 'Evolution defines only the good feelings as 'good', which is obvious, no?
My pleasure is what I deem as my personal life. I must have that back. Or someone dies. It won't be an innocent person who is trying to help me recover my pleasure. It would instead be someone who mocks me by telling me to accept my absence of pleasure. How could I possibly accept something that renders me and my life of no good value whatsoever? You say that there are other good things in life besides pleasure. No, I do not believe that. Not in the least bit. This is because, from my personal experience of depression and anhedonia, my thoughts and such without my pleasure are just neutral conscious experiences to me. They have no life and are just nothing more than neutral sounds, images, phrases, etc. without my pleasure. Only my pleasure breathes life into those things and makes me and my life good. There is no transcending experience whatsoever from my thoughts and such alone without my pleasure. Again, it has nothing to do with me attributing neutral value to those said things that is making them neutral experiences for me. They really are all neutral in of themselves without my pleasure and it has nothing to do with me attributing neutral value or any other value to them. I live life to experience it and to be transcended by it. I am not some bland person who is fine living a life like some robot or someone who just lives life like a job and nothing more. I am more profound and greater than that. Therefore, I need my pleasure back to regain that said profound and great life. If you were to make me watch a video of Hitler slaughtering the innocent Jews, I would perceive Hitler as being a bad person. But I would also realize that this version of bad is neutral (fake). Feelings of suffering are the only true bad things in life while feelings of pleasure are the only true good things in life. Therefore, if Hitler didn't have any feelings of suffering and only derived pleasure from slaughtering the Jews, then that pleasure would make him a good person. But since the Jews experienced feelings of suffering, then that would make them bad. Why do I say this? It's not because I am some sociopath or anything of the sort. Sociopaths have little to no empathy. I have empathy. If I saw Hitler or someone harming someone or some innocent living creature, I would feel very sorry for that living person/creature. However, I would realize that the psychopath would actually be a good person for deriving pleasure in harming that person/innocent living thing. So, again, why do I say this? It is because my personal experience of depression and anhedonia (absence of pleasure) have made me realize that pleasure is the only truly good experience in life. I now realize that our thoughts and such without our pleasure are all neutral and are all neutral conscious experiences. If, let's pretend, I never had depression or anhedonia, then I would truly perceive Hitler as being a horrible person even though he derived pleasure from harming all the Jews. Therefore, you might then say that my depression and anhedonia have distorted my perceptions. But this is false. I now have every reason to believe that pleasure is the one and only true good thing in life. Please refer to my other packets which contain arguments and reasonings supporting this claim.
I really wish I could find the Ted talks video that proves everything in the op wrong. It was about porn addiction. There us hard science behind this but I will just summarize it. If you have too much pleasure, you get a pleasure tolerance. Eventually you will suffer from.chronic depression because your brain is no longer able to satisfy your dopamine addiction. -yuri
We have good, bad, and neutral (neither good or bad). But the version of good and bad that comes from everything else in life besides our feelings of pleasure and suffering, they are all the neutral version of good and bad. In other words, they are the fake verison of good and bad. If this makes no sense to you, then allow me to explain. We would not refer to everything else in life besides our feelings of pleasure and suffering as being good or bad. We would instead refer to them as all being neutral. We would instead refer to feelings of pleasure as being what is the one and only good thing in life while feelings of suffering would be the one and only bad thing in life. Even if those neutral things only served to bring us and/or others nothing but suffering or pleasure, we would still not refer to them as being good or bad. Even if seeking pleasure only brought us and/or others nothing but suffering, we would still not refer to pleasure as being bad since it is always good since it is the true version of good. It is a version of good that is independent of our thoughts and moral values. It is a feeling version of good. Therefore, our value judgments including everything else in life can never define it as ever being bad or neutral. Same concept applies for our feelings of suffering. It does not matter what you say such as that seeking too much pleasure will cause a chemical tolerance and cause you an absence of pleasure and suffering, or if you were to tell me that other things in life besides our pleasure benefit our survival much more. Pleasure is still the only good thing in life since it is a feeling version of good and it cannot be defined as bad or neutral as I've said before. Same concept applies for our feelings of suffering. Also, if I were to somehow perceive me and my life as being good and worth living without my pleasure, then that good perception would not be good at all. It would only be neutral and I would only be fooling myself into perceiving it as good. So people who have depression and/or anhedonia (absence of pleasure) who perceive them and their lives as being good and worth living anyway without their pleasure, these people are only fooling themselves. Everything else in life besides our feelings of pleasure and suffering that are claimed to be good and bad, that version of good and bad is a decoy and people must realize this so that we can find better treatments/cures for depression, anhedonia, and suffering in general since our pleasure is what is the only good thing in life and it is that much more vital that we have it in our lives.
pleasure is temporary. joy is everlasting, joy is always there, but you simply disconnect from it. if you live your life with purpose and love joy will be present with you.
It seems like an over simplification to divide pleasure into just those three states - negative, neutral and positive. I think pleasure is more complex than that. Pleasure can also emerge as the result of the combination of many other emotional states. It would also vary from person to person, because what one person finds pleasurable another might not. I can't deny the importance that you attach to pleasure in your life. But I doubt that other people consider pleasure to be such a neatly divisible dominating emotional force in their life. This is largely just a a matter of semantics and personal belief though. Whether we can agree on the definitions of these words doesn't really matter too much when taking mental illness into consideration. To treat mental illness successfully we need treatment based on proven, replicable studies because that's the only way we will know if the treatment is likely to work. The ultimate goal of a psychologist/psychiatrist is to have their patients think and feel in a way that is considered normal by the rest of society. I worry about some things though. The pharmaceutical industry is far more focused on making money than curing mental illness among the population. Partly because of this, doctors are overly eager to prescribe psychological medications without analyzing their patient deeply enough to determine whether it really is the most suitable treatment for them. I believe that many people are being wrongly prescribed psych meds. This though is not a problem with the scientific method but rather a social economical problem. Science is still the best tool we have for researching/improving techniques and medications for psychological illness.
I am going to state something extremely important here. It is something truly amazing. When I had this depression and anhedonia (absence of pleasure), this lead me to a personal belief (conclusion) that pleasure is the only truly good thing in life, suffering is the only truly bad thing in life, while everything else in life is neutral (neither truly good or bad). I went online and typed in the question "Is pleasure the only good thing in life?" and I have found an established belief system that basically matches what I just said word for word. This belief is known as Psychological Hedonism. I am now going to give you the link (url) to this website: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hedonism/ Now that you've read it, I find it too much of a coincidence that an intelligent person such as myself has come up with a personal conclusion and that there also so happens to be a belief supported by science that says the exact same things I'm saying. Therefore, pleasure really must be the only truly good thing in life then and suffering must be the only truly bad thing in life. I can honestly say here that this is something truly tragic though because this would mean that we would have every right to treat suffering people like shit since they are bad people since they feel bad. If we suffer, then we should treat ourselves like shit since we are bad people who deserve to be thrown and tossed away like metal scraps. It would also mean that we should bow down before those types of people who derive pleasure from making our lives shit since they are the greater people since they have pleasure in their lives.
Op is a ridiculously crazy person, or a troll. Not sure which, but everything you have said is wrong op. Deriving pleasure from causing pain does not make you a good person. In fact that is pretty much the definition of a bad person. That is why we lock up people who cause harm to others. They hold the rest of us actual good people back and that is unacceptable. Seek mental help op. You definitely have some sort of psychosis.
hes a troll that spammed the board a little while back by making the same threads as this one in pretty much all the sub-forums, and now he's doing it again... he also posts theses same threads on other boards http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/17769/#206659 http://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14259 http://tinybuddha.com/topic/life-has-no-meaning-other-than-our-own-pleasure-and-suffering/ maybe he'll actually get banned this time for spamming...i'm sure we'd all find pleasure in that...