hello I am hoping someone may be able to answer my questions please! I have just started growing a high cbd/low thc strain and was wondering if it was advantagious/necessary to wait until pre-flowers appear before switching to 12/12 (to maximise plant functioning for medicinal purposes eg terpenes and cbd amount?? would I be blaspheming and 'ruining' (diluting/changing) the strain if I didn't??) I received the plants as clones (of clones) and the plan is to continue to clone (from a mother or is it ok to clone from plant to plant every time? or will that 'water down' the strain or anything?). I have waiting for pre-flowers to switch and now have a size problem! They're so big and only at start of bloom. They seem to be a really tall/stretchy strain. I am unsure how to go about the next lot now; a) wait til pre-flowers show before 12/12 and try and manipulate the plant to grow shorter and denser or b ) activate 12/12 sooner and go by size (so plant would be immature??) What would be best in this situation do you think?? Would really appreciate your thoughts - thanks!
Pics will help the folks at GC help you. As far as the mothers/clones are the exact same genetic makeup and doesn't change. You can switch anytime to 12/12 lighting it will induce flowering.
Hi, Ill do my best. No, it's not necessary to wait for pre-flowers, once a plant is 3 or 4 weeks old it will flower as normal given the chance (12/12) cloning is just that, cloning, each time you clone it's genetic make up is exactly the same, it's essentially the same plant. Because the plant you have is a clone then it will likely be over 3-4 weeks old therefore can be flowered any time. If they are too tall then bend the highest branches over to match the height of the lower ones and tie in place. I don't know how to recommend for the next lot without knowing what you have done wrong with this lot. Can you put a few photos up of your set up? a ) forget about pre-flowers b ) switch to 12/12 at the correct time. This will depend on what training methods are you doing. Put some photos up so we can see what you are dealing with. There is no "one size fits all'' advice we can give you. It's all about making the best of what you got
thank you so much for your replies. yes, can appreciate the not a 'one size fits all thing' . I will try and get pics uploaded to this computer (although having some sd card dramas at the moment). So I won't bother with a mother then - so why do mother's even exist I am wondering? for larger grows I am guessing? I have a book I am following and it says to 'wait to induce flowering until pre-flowers have appeared - if induced before pre-flowers set it will stress the plant which could cause strange growth, and plants may grow into hermaphrodites. It also says inducing flowering before pre-flowers develop does not make plants flow faster. Plants will flower about the same time as if you had waited for pre-flowers to develop.' I aslo read something online specific to high cbd plants and not flowering too early or the cbd/terpenes may not have matured in the plant so you're not optimising the medicinal benefit of the plant. (ie less cbd development?) I'm so confused! I wouldn't be so worried if it was an easy to get/common strain. It is for a little girl and it will be infused in coconut oil/decarboxylated so I am really wanting to get the cbd:thc ratio correct
Goldgrower is right on the button. If you're dealing with clones, then the plant is likely mature enough already. Some people flower from seed (it won't actually flower until 3-4 weeks from starting it, but it is called 12/12 from seed) and it works just fine, Since you're growing medicinal herb for a child, I understand the importance of getting things just right. You should be fine to start flowering any time, by the sounds of it. I can understand being confused as it sounds like you're reading some very technical information. I don't personally know much about getting higher cbd's, but if you have a strain that will give you that, it's all about giving the plant what it needs to thrive. To answer your question about keeping a mother, it's just so you don't have to keep making a clone of a clone. It's better not to have a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone. Keeping one good strong plant by itself to take clones from and let grow to make you more saves you from doing so, or buying lots of expensive seeds. What is the strain, if I may ask? What are your growing conditions? (space, lighting, ventilation, temps, nutrients, etc) Photos will be very helpful if you can get that working.
Mothers are generally kept when people want to make many clones at the same time. If you have a vegging tent as well as a flower tent you can clone a plant right before you move it to the flower tent, and veg one plant while it's predecessor flowers. This way you don't need a mother/doner plant, but you can still keep one if you wanted. If that's what the book says then the author is wrong. Pre-flowers can sometimes not show for many weeks after the plant is mature. If you flower as it becomes mature, or when pre-flowers show, or several months later, it will still take the same amount of time to flower. The cbd thing could be you getting the info muddled yourself perhaps. Harvesting too early is commonly said to have the plant in a state of low cbd,and harvesting late will have it in a state of high cbd. So that's when you harvest, not when you put it on 12/12. But even this is in my opinion a bit dubious. It's a common agreed upon idea, but I have harvested bud at different times and not noticed any thc/cbd difference. If you want high cbd levels, then I'd recommend a high cbd strain, there are many out there. I think you are being a bit bogged down with the pre-flower thing. It is not something you need to know or care about. All you need to know is if the plant is over 3 or 4 weeks old. And because it's a clone it will definitely be older than that. In fact, I suspect it has got pre-flowers, but you just haven't noticed them
Its best you make one mother plant out of the clone. Then the SOG. I agree with everyone in the forum. The further generations you go down the chances of genetic error is higher. For example a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone. You should ask the person who you got the clone from. How many times he or she clone plant before it became a mother plant. Its always good to find history regarding your clone. If he or she grew it from seed and it was the first generation as mother plant. It should be fine. Usually after 5th generation its best you restart from scratch. The advantage always about a clone is the consistency. It rarely will be different from the mother plant. @missyone Have you pinch and train the plant?
I have made clones from clones countless times over. I have kept the same plant by cloning for a couple of years and never experienced any changes whatsoever
One thing to note when it comes to CBD/THC... Harvesting slightly early increases CBD yet further, harvesting a bit later increases THC. Usually "a bit early" and "later" is a matter of about 5 days, though. If you harvest when less than half your crystals are cloudy, less than half the hairs colored...almost no psychoactive effect, but your tested CBD will be AMAZING (for the strain). If you wait until 2/3 or more of the crystals are cloudy/colored, or 3/4 of the hairs are fully colored, you lose some of that CBD intensity...but test much higher for THC.
From the folks who do the state mandated testing, here in WA, Gold. Sorry, but I'll take the word of the folks who have to be state qualified and certified, who do it for a living, over someone who grows, and only grows.
Believe what you want it's still wrong. It's most commonly believed to be the other way round. But I don't believe either way. My own experiences influence my beliefs more than any hearsay
Later harvested plants have higher proportions of THC becoming CBN, not CBD. I'm curious to know more about the peak CBD window.
Almost every grow I have done (and I have been growing marijuana for over 20 years) I have cut a bit of bud a week early because I have run out and there is no discernable difference between the high compared to the bud in the main harvest. If you want a particular high you need to select the right strain. In my opinion it's not worth worrying about when to harvest. Just harvest when it's ripe and you won't go far wrong
@GoldGrower All I mean is when you clone from clone from clone from clone from clone. Doing it too many times the gene expressions will vary and it might lose it vigor. I am not saying its set in stone but its possibility. Gene mutation happens everyday. Some growers have great results and others are unfortunate. Cloning are great way to increase yield and maximize efficiency in cost compare to buying seeds all the time. I just want to express the Pros and Cons about Cloning.
Gene mutations happen in gametes and zygotes, not fully grown plants. Their genes can't change without something drastic like being subjected to radioactivity. clones are just that, clones. I have have never experienced any changes from cloning over and over in the 20 years I have been growing and hundreds of different plants
Hard to argue when you have a gas spectrometer saying differently (showing a strain known for high CBD and moderate THC as having higher CBD in a flower harvested 5 days before another, which tests with higher THC), when both buds came from the same plant, just trimmed at different times. Which is exactly what I've seen happen several times in my presence, which is what lead to me asking them "why". Myself, I wouldn't know how to run a legit test...but I can't exactly argue with those who make a career of it and have the data from such high end equipment backing their statements.
If you clone from new shoots it can slightly change the plant aa hormones are peak in new shoots this is how the cheese came about due to cloning clones lots but older shoots will be more lile the mother plant. Cbd peak window will be simila to thc peak window. There both in the thrichome Also the thc and terpenes will change day by day as its vaporised by heat and light so its possible that it may seem lile there more or the other heat and light will play a part in degrading thc all depends when there harvested. All sorts could change cbd/ thc slight nute difference where light hits the bud ect ect. And i hope people are not getting cbn and cbd confused auto help page if you need help with autoflowers http://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1294434-Need-help-with-autos?-Welcome new vote page sept please vote http://www.dutch-passion.nl/en/photovote/2014-09-03-autoultimate%C2%AE-loki_1752/
that's all great info - thank you! There really is a lot of science involved isn't there. It will be interesting to see what new studies/research develop now that the legal issues are softening. So - am thinking I will definitely keep a mother then. I do not have too many specifics on strain etc ( I believe it is Remedy/related to remedy), think it is already about a 3rd or 4th generation clone of clone. Because of the country I live in I do not have access to more seeds/plant at this stage so wanting to maintain what I have for as long as possible. So - I don't need to stress so much about optimising the cannabinoid components of the strain then - it is optimised as soon as plant matures? which, from clones is by about 4 weeks - that's awesome news. Because of the quantity of buds I need for the medicine and the turn around time my best bet is to keep my yield smaller so I don't have too much bud {crazy problem } and then I don't have the size problem either. That's interesting info re. the harvesting - I had read somewhere about waiting until towards end of harvest window - both to minimise the thc/increase the cbn (as it's for a young child) and optimise the cbd. I really appreciate all your comments - thanks so much
You're welcome, and good luck. I found a great article that really relates to what you are going to accomplish here... I hope it helps http://www.growweedeasy.com/thc-cbd-cbn-when-to-harvest-marijuana