Many atheists ask the question of how an afterlife is supposed to make this life any more valuable and how just the idea of living on in an afterlife of eternal joy is supposed to make your life more happy and make you more motivated. I will tell you how. If someone came up to you and told you that you are going to go on some amazing vacation to some other part of the world in which you are free from your problems and are able to live a happy life there, then it would be very likely that you would feel very happy and motivated. You would be very happy and motivated in this life and would excitedly do things in preparation to go to that part of the world. As a matter of fact, that happiness, motivation, and excitement would be very likely to motivate and encourage you to do more of the things that you normally do in your daily life and would encourage and motivate you to strive towards those said things even more. For example, if you had a career in life such as being a composer, then you might be motivated and encouraged to pursue that said dream even more in the meantime before going to that vacation since just you knowing that you will go on that amazing vacation has encouraged and motivated you to do more of the things you like to do. Especially if I told you that the only way you can go on that vacation is if you made the best of life in the meantime and that if you do wrong deeds, then you would not go to that vacation (just like how some religious people would be more encouraged to make the best of this life if they were told that they would go to heaven only providing that they made the best of this life in the meantime). But if someone then came up to you and told you the truth which is that there is no such vacation and that you are just going to have to live with and deal with your life of problems, then it would be likely that you would feel discouraged and would do less of the things you like to do in life. Or, at least, you would do these things less intensively than you did before when you did believe that you were going to go on that vacation. However, even though over time you might develop a sense of acceptance towards your life of problems and that feeling of discouragement might disappear, it would be irrational for you to develop a sense of greater motivation, happiness, and value towards this life rather than having the greater value through believing that you would go on that vacation. The only way it would be rational is if there was something bad and/or horrible that could happen living a blissful life. But in the event that such bad/horrendous events would never happen and/or that they should not happen, then if that person then somehow came back up to you and told you that you actually will go on that vacation despite your values towards living this life you have instead, then you might say to that person "Who needs that dumb vacation when I have this amazing life to live?" However, that mindset is irrational. It would be no different than if you were in some hospital bed with cancer. Even though you might very well have developed a sense of immense value in life despite your cancer, it would be irrational if someone came up to you, told you that there is a cure for cancer in which you would be able to live a happy life free of such suffering, and then for you to refuse to be cured of that cancer and for you to want to remain in that hospital bed. This is because we are evolved to be reward-seeking animals. The greater sense of reward comes not only from us developing a sense of immense value towards this life despite all its suffering and also in living for others, but also when this said sense of reward is combined with another sense of reward which would be living a happy life of very little suffering. So in my example with that vacation, then knowing that you would go on that vacation combined with the value you have towards your life of suffering should combine to create the greatest sense of value in your life. Even if it is a life in which you have the greater sense of value living for others rather than yourself, you should still have the greater sense of value in life if that said life also had happiness and very little suffering offered to you. We are of just as much value to ourselves as we are to each other and we have every right to have value/live for ourselves as much as we would for others. We have every right to do this as long as we are not harming/demeaning those innocent good people. Therefore, the rational thing for this cancer patient to say to that person in return would be something like "Even though I have developed a sense of immense value despite all my suffering in this hospital bed and I have used that life to make others happy, a life in which I am personally free of this suffering would be the greatest life for me as well. I can also use that life free of cancer to do even more and greater things in this life than I ever did before. Even if you are somehow lying to me and that there really is no cure, then just me believing that I would be cured of this cancer one day makes my life even more valuable and makes my life that much more worth living for." So as you can see here, it would be irrational of atheists to not have value towards an afterlife of eternal joy in which they are free of their problems and suffering and for them to actually find no value in living such a life if such a life did exist. It would be irrational of them to have no value towards believing in such an afterlife even though such a life does not exist. Therefore, religious people are not the only ones with irrational mindsets here. Some atheists might have less value or no value towards the idea of an afterlife of eternal joy. Maybe it is because such a life does not exist or it could be that they feel that they would not be able to do the great things in life that they wanted to do if they lived such a boring blissful life. First off, just because something doesn't exist doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. To say that it doesn't matter would be no different than saying that anime (Japanese cartoons) or videogames do not matter and should not be watched/played and that people should have no value towards those said things simply because they depict worlds and characters that do not exist in reality. Even our own perceptions of reality do not exist. What I mean by that is that everything we see in this life is not what it actually is when we look at it all from a quantum level. And yet, people still find value towards those said things in life anyway. They find value in the perception of those things despite that perception not actually existing in reality. So, in other words, we value our ideals of reality which would be our ideal perceptions of reality that actually do not exist in reality. Second, if there was such a blissful life in which you would always be innocent and you would never do harm to anyone else despite such a life not having any suffering, then you can still do great things in that life anyway even better than you could before and you could easily find a greater sense of value in that life. It's just as with my example with the vacation and the cancer patient. Even though such lives free of problems are blissful, you could easily find greater value in such a life and should be encouraged to do more great things in that life. For example, with a vacation, you could actually go and live there and choose to pursue your dreams and such there anyway despite the fact that such a life is blissful. As a matter of fact, you should be more encouraged to pursue your dreams and such even more intensively than you did before when you did live a life of major problems. Same thing with the cancer patient in that he/she should find the greater sense of value living a life free of his/her cancer. Otherwise, his/her life will have less value if he/she was not free of that cancer and/or did not believe that he/she would be free of it one day. Also, there is no need whatsoever to be bored and/or go insane from such a blissful life based on everything I've said here. You couldn't go bored and/or insane anyway since being bored and/or going insane is a form of suffering. Since there would be no suffering in that blissful life, then you should never go bored, insane, and/or find less value in that life.
People's beliefs concerning the existence of an afterlife definitely affect their quality of life, many times (maybe most of the time?) for the good. But this isn't necessarily the case, either for the individual or society, as the ISIS "believers" clearly demonstrate. Their view of the afterlife and system of rewards may be quite positive in many respects, but the baggage that contains their view of their god and his mission for their lives ultimately produces suffering, death, and horror for other many people - probably for them as well in the long run. After all, can such very real and very relevant wacked out beliefs really produce fulfillment, peace, and harmony with their god, with humanity, and with their own conscience through the kinds of religious based, psycho-sadistic pathology that we see them demonstrate each week on the news?
I don't think any atheists argue that they don't see the allure of an afterlife. Obviously, it's quite enticing. edit: Maybe a lot do, I don't know - I've not really seen that.
I accepted pretty early on I wasn't religious. And it's never really got me down. Ideas of being worried or scared about the afterlife, I'm very curious. I'm motivated to do good deeds just for the pleasure of doing them and helping others, not because i'm aiming for anything in the next life. I dreamt I died one night, and even in my dream, after the initial oh-my-god-i'm-gonna-die reaction, all I could think was 'well, i'm gonna find out now". I happily discuss options with people, paradise, reincarnation, rebirth, I find it a very interesting topic, because no one knows, it's the big question and it's fascinating
'No atheists in foxholes'.. ~.An atheist in a foxhole There's more to spiritual belief than believing in an afterlife, etc...When you get down to it, it should only matter what you do right now...with no other motivation. Then there is spiritual understanding.
Here's the problem I have with an eternal afterlife - It's eternal. No matter how great something is, eventually if given enough time, it becomes boring, routine, monotonous. What theists don't understand is that it's irrational to believe in an afterlife, especially since there isn't any evidence. And like said before, the afterlife can be used to make good people do terrible things. "Hey, if you crash these planes into these buildings full of blasphemers, you'll spend an eternity with virgins" I see no such lure in an afterlife. In fact, I think the afterlife dilutes the life we have now.
You can't prove there is an afterlife, and you can't prove there isn't. That being said you also can't prove this isn't the afterlife.
Everything points to brain death as the end...that's it...so don't tell people what's "rational" to believe...
For the first part, if there IS an 'afterlife'...a lure is irrelevant except that it fucks up people's minds..as you say, but there's always going to be ignorance in Man..always. I believe we may have really no comprehension of what it might be or mean...like stepping into another dimension completely unrelated to this one...and on and on. Boredom and time..completely not a factor.
Atheist won't tell you there is no after life. They don't know. ..neither do you. Your beliefs are based on faith, theirs isn't. With no information to process, there's nothing to be said either way.....
Ignorance, sure. But, extinguish religion and I'm willing to bet you won't have people flying into buildings, blowing up abortion clinics and beheading journalists. Just sayin'
It's scary to think that one day we will die and we are just gone and that's that. I remember when I was maybe 6/7 and I understood what my own personal death was and I think I cried for about an hour. I didn't believe my mum when she tried to suggest an afterlife either. I dealt with it, there's no reason why anyone else can't. There's a lot of bad things in the world and as we grow up we have to acknowledge them and I don't see this as being any different. If being honest with oneself isn't enough, at least I'm not wasting my time praying or worrying about me/my friends going to hell, or having to follow rules that some deity I have no proof of exists.
Eh, it would go along way that's for sure...but until you get rid of human nature there will always be a fight over resources, land, etc...taking over the world...that is unless ET''s swooped down and solved all those problems for us...food, shelter, and the ability to not have to sleep...and any other frailty we have..
Interesting read, OP. The one thing I remain completely convinced of is that if there is a God, and an afterlife, it sure as fuck isn't one of the man-made ones. It's not Jesus, it's not Muhammad, it's not Zeus, it's not Odin (and that makes me sad as fuck because the Norse afterlife is all blondes with big tits, honeyed beer, roast meat and swordfights). It's none of these because they stink way too much of people. Stink way, way, way too much of manipulative control structures, of preachers hitting the right note to hijack that sense of spirituality we are all born with. Edit: How do these thoughts bounce off you, OP? I am not spiteful or mocking, I'm earnestly curious about how you could be convinced otherwise.
Atheist dont feel the need to act a certain way because of something they are promised as a reward after. An atheist will live life as a human being, without the fog of persuaded ideologies that are used to affect their life and moral compass. An atheist will think for themselves, and live life how they see fit.
Jesus Christ I say ironically. You've painted a picture of atheists being aloof, lazy, unmotivated selfish people living for nothing. Have you ever been to northern Europe? Where the majority of people are atheists? An extremely productive and happy part of the world. Compare that to the most religious parts of the world. How oppressive and hateful those parts are. But matter of fact is whatever way you go in life you'll always end at status quo. If you'd lose your eye sight it would be horrible... for a few months. Then you'd go back to the same way you were before. Same level of happiness and optimism. Same thing goes for, say, winning a million dollars. It would be great but eventually you'd go back to the same mind set you were at before you became wealthy. My point is whether you're deist or atheist you pretty much have the same perception on life. You cry for the same reasons and you laugh for the same reasons. Whether you believe in God or not doesn't affect you life as much as you think. If that was the case wouldn't you be spending every second living in a monastery and praying to assure your place in paradise? But you don't. I bet you haven't even read the book you swear by. I spent most of my life believing in God and an after life. My last year as a teenager I apostatized and I'm now a nihilistic atheist. Guess what - I'm no different now from how I was before. It hasn't affected my values or motivation. Your entire post is based on a twisted perception on people different from you. We have dreams, aspirations and love just like you. Both of us view the "next chapter" as a different stage from this life. The only difference is that you believe your consciousness carries on in a new eternal life, and I do not. It doesn't affect how we experience this life. In conclusion your entire post is pointless simply because you don't understand how an atheist person thinks or lives his/her life.