Religious text are opinions of other people and are a form of media. Your point on control is interesting. If we are created in debt to an authority, then we are slaves. If history has taught us anything (over and over and over) is that authority is evil. You get people like popes who take it upon themselves to tell the slaves what Gods will is. Thats how the crusades were justified, the witch hunts, purges, etc. When you get a corruptable human to speak in place of God, you have a big problem. God says kill your first born, normally that is a no-no, but since a man speaking for God says you must do it, well then it must be okay right? On the other hand if you look for the true nature of 'God' you arent so easily fooled into mindcontrolled horrors and contradictions
You are speaking about christianity here and you are saying authority is evil? yes we are evil to our own selves as god gave us the ability to chose our path in life... and yes men do evil things thats why god tells us to keep away from evil and ward off evil doing in the quran especially. Of course people in some authority will abuse it and theres a punishment for that.. Dont blame the one who created you for other human beings actions.. a mistake i have made myself and for a long time too when bad things happen Also you are talking about a debt? if something with a higher power made you dont you think you should be grateful for that? you would not be breathing and experiencing anything in life at all would you.... so next time your thirsty or stuffing your face because your on the munchies just remember where that food came from and try to be a little more respectful ok? If its control you have an issue with.. the only apparent control islam offers is staying away from evil and doing good deeds.. so yeah control as in the evil doers and criminals are punished. If you cant come to terms with that its your problem. You need god not the other way around. You are a dot on the huge planet of ours but you was made with a purpose. That is to worship god... but we rebel against that dont we because we want to do whatever we feel like doing without anyone to judge us... but sorry to break it to you thats not going to happen we all are going to be judged on our actions i believe.. on our good and evil deeds... You can either be rewarded for doing good or punished for doing evil.. how is that wrong or bad in anyway unless you are stuck in your own evils? by that i mean corrupt and dont care about it so want to mislead others also... In the end you are just hurting yourself. I am not judging anyone i am one of the biggest sinners going but i try.. is that too much for your creator to ask of you? even if he gave you everything and sustains you? By the way i am saying all this but i think at some point i am going to sin.. its all i do daily as i struggle against my desires.. the wrong desires that is harmful.. but thats my fault i am not going to blame god for that.. but i will be judged for it and god will blame me for any evil i do to myself or to others because i chose it my friend...
I have no problem with 'God' i have a problem with religions. Bring grateful is not the same as being in debt. The power structures of the world thrive on the perception of debt (as do religions). If i gave you a car you would be grateful, not in debt. If i gave you a car and said "now you owe me", you would be like uhhh... i didnt ask for this, i dont owe you anything. Why would God create the universe and leave humans ignorant of the truth until less than 2000years ago? Btw im not being disrespectful, keep in mind you are only reading my words... i cannot easily express my sentiment through text. I am not even attacking your religion, i know very little about it.
First off I'm not trying to disrespect you or make you out to be a bad or dumb person. I was a Muslim up until I was nineteen, so I know how defensive one can be of their religion. Lol I used to even defend Islam on forums and chat rooms. So everything you're saying - I know where it's coming from. I am actually in a debate with another guy I met on BF4 who wants to debate, I'm currently working on my "thesis". It should be done in 1-2 days, and if you want I can post it here so you can take part of it. Everything you're saying about God tho is written by men. I mean men write things and claim it's from God and you take their word for it. How do you know everything they wrote really came from God (not saying that God exists)? It's the same issue Christianity and Judaism faces. All I'm saying is that if any religion was truly from God there would be no question about it. But the texts we have today with the God stamp on it are clearly written by conservative men. Sure the Quran says some nice things like respect your parents, take care of the poor, don't force people unto your religion (which is later contradicted) but does that make it the word from God? Couldn't God come up with anything better than what people have already figured out thousands of years prior to the Abrahamic religions? From your own experience? Are you saying God showed you a sign of his presence? Cause reading a book doesn't prove you've experienced anything. In more ways than you'd think. According to the Quran you're doomed to hellfire if you either take protection from non-Muslims (from context this includes living in a non-Muslim country, especially a socialist one). And you're doomed to hell if you befriend non-Muslims. The Quran doesn't mention sins filling the ocean. You're the one giving wrong information now, which is what you accused me of earlier. I'm lying to myself by thinking logically and turning my back on a religion that has never produced anything good? I think not. You're lying to yourself by listening to everyone who tells you Islam is good for you. Anyway, anyway. I'm gonna finish my side of the debate with the other guy and I'll post my text as soon as possible. Peace.
I'm the opposite. Religion isn't for me, but then I had an experience where an entity (imagination or not) vibrate strange messages that I was on an incorrect path of life. Still not religious, but I as a human don't know SHIT. I'm open to ideas and experiences. I was born catholic, went atheist, then when I saw that Hindu type being, I became Agnostic in a way.
Haha bro you are talking to a former viking wannabe i used to listen to amon amarth and drink tons of beer... if you have not heard of amon amarth they are a viking themed death metal band. So yeah i can see your picture and name i was into all that too. Then came islam afterwards.. Also thats the problem you lack knowledge but like i said before intelligent and wise people seek it out and do not let others sway them in the process. If it does nothing for you after fully understanding and studying it then at least you then have the knowledge anyway and can avoid not only being lied to but can say you know.. know the truth and not what some person tells you to think. I get the feeling maybe you are not one who likes to be controlled and i get that ... but in reality you are being without even knowing it and thats because of lack of knowledge. Get the awnsers on your side then make a decision. Also theres a big difference between a car and your life and everything good you get.. everything. Yes and also the bad things.. you will always get that too at some point in your life due to the sins of other men and yourself. We hurt each other at the end of the day and we hurt our own souls. Its best to just do some research on it thats all i can say and make your own choice because thats one of the greatest mercies and blessings god gave you.. freedom to chose even if you chose an evil path.. but he only asks good of you.. I dont really like talking about this here on a weed forum but i am just trying to pass on what i know because at one point i was completely lost and believing in things that was bullshit and as i said i struggle daily with sin.. no man is perfect and no man is free from sin and theres a ton or problems in the world as we can see and injustices.. and we question why its happening and why it continues.. well its not gods fault for that its our own.. where would our freewill be if the creator forced us to do anything at all.. and if we are just specs on a planet he created.. a massive planet full of other creation. Then to me even thats a mercy because we have been blessed with a choice.. A CHOICE thats true. Anyway its been interesting i would rather not go on and on and on but if someone wants to know something and i have done the research and know the awnser it would be a shame if i was to keep it to myself.. like i said i try to be grateful
Hey its fine if you believe all that but just allow people to make their own choices... as for you saying this (In more ways than you'd think. According to the Quran you're doomed to hellfire if you either take protection from non-Muslims (fromcontext this includes living in a non-Muslim country, especially a socialist one). And you're doomed to hell if you befriend non-Muslims.) I know for a fact now your either trying to lie to people or you have no idea what you are talking about... and i never called you anything earlier either... if my religion said what your saying here i would not of touched it with a barge pole so please dont sit there and tell me what my religion says because you are wrong. Secondly i am not here to debate with you or prove anything to anyone. Also you can say its man made until you are blue in the face... you cant really provide proof for that can you. I could provide proof if i wanted to but its not my job to tell or convince anyone what to believe is true thats what the government and media try to do here in the UK and its quite clear they are either misguided or corrupt..and it would be better if people actually searched for it themselves instead of relying on other people to tell them what to think...and i dont expect anyone to take my word for it... you cant take a persons word on something as important and as sensitive as this... it would be a stupid move... especially when people have their own agendas... I am saying do your own research and make up your own mind to the guy basically... Also the difference between me and you is that i am a believer... You are not so of course you will say its man made... Its not my job to convince people that are clearly set in their ways and have already made a choice. You say its never produced anything good and i am saying otherwise. I guess your going to say its evil next too.... please do me a favour haha I went to islam for a reason and thats because its true. Before i was a white power racist... i think that speaks for itself. Take it easy man
Oh and there is no question about it... that god exists... if you bother to look and find out. Theres no question about men changing texts and currupting either and theres no question about people deliberately trying to misguide people for their own agenda especially where islam is concerned. Anyway i am done with this take it easy
Prove it. I am saying you are wrong. So we disagree but i wont be debating you and most likely getting into an arguement because sometimes thats what can happen especially if one of the parties are set in their ways trying to prove how right they are and how wrong everyone else is... let people see for themselves instead of trying to sway people with your own (opinions) just because your saying something does not make it true.... and i am saying that openly too about myself.. dont believe what i say go and see for yourself!
Did i say the quran? no. Theres other books also such as the hadeeth.. You my friend have definately i can now say for certain have never been a muslim otherwise you would know where that came from. Goodbye i am done with you lol As to everyone else.. this is what i am talking about... dont let them sway you in your search for truth and knowledge and where you came from. Some people will do anything to put you off trust me. Remember when i said i was a white power viking wannabe racist.. well thats how i was raised.. you think it was easy to let my family go because they are too set in their ways lieng to people like they did me for so many years.. telling me what to believe. Alas i did love them but they could not accept me... Now tell me i am trying to bullshit you or giving false information haha
Said the guy who clearly hasn't read the Quran. What I'm saying is there, in black on white. You claimed to have read the Quran. If that was the case you wouldn't be accusing me of lying, because it's there clear as day. And another verse says you're not allowed to live with your family if they're not believers, namely your parents. That's exactly what made me leave Islam. I stopped listening to people tell me about Islam and started studying it myself. It wasn't my intention to leave. I couldn't in a million years have imagined myself leaving Islam. But when I was faced with the facts in the book I had sworn by my entire life... I left. Psychology 101. People will believe and defend what they've been taught. You teach a child one thing and they will take that with them for the rest of their lives. I'm not making it up. If what I'm saying is untrue I would've remained a Muslim. Well actually the promise of hellfire if you befriend non-Muslims didn't make me apostatize. The countless of contradictions and scientific inaccuracies did. Just like you're telling me to "learn
Sure lol i have clearly never read the quran at all.. -.- even though i am a muslim. I am not sure what planet your on lol not trying to be rude man but come off it. Ok you did your own research thats fine. I am saying dont say things are in the quran that are not and dont lead people to websites that have uploaded a load of nonsense and fake ayat either. Go to the actual quran itself. Anyway i am not argueing with you bro if you wanted to leave islam thats your choice i am just asking kindly not to make up things. If it was true half of the things you are saying i would not of became a muslim in the first place. Also you cannot live with your parents if they are not muslim and you are? wow just wow now your deliberatly lieng. Well i will expose you right now.. With some questions. Do you believe a wise and intelligent person seeks the truth themselves instead of taking anothers word for it no matter how true it appears? especially over a matter that is greatly important you need to know where you come from or would you prefer just living and thinking to yourself what is the meaning of this? because you tell me why we are here what it the reason behind a such vast and complex existance.... i know why i am here theres a purpose i am not here just to exist for no reason..... So would you agree its better to go to the direct source instead of taking another persons word then? If so would you also agree that everyone here should actually get a Quran and read it for themselves then? no matter how bad it is according to you anyway........ Or would you tell them not to bother...? thanks
Look man just because your stuck in your sinning ways and evil doing.. if you are.. not saying you are.. just making a point if you are. and dont want to be accountable for anything you do at all (too bad) does not make it right for you to attempt to either deliberately or ignorantly give people wrong information to put them off finding out for themselves.. Dont drag people down with you and your ignorance just because your trying to rebel. I am done with this anyway i come on here to talk about weed not to talk about this but dont try and tell me what my own religion tells me because to be frank with you.. i am telling you respectfully you are wrong because half the nonsense you have said i dont even think you have ever been a muslim at all because its made up and your trying your best to twist things and attempt to put people off. Just because you dont believe in it does not mean it is not true. I would never have bothered with islam if half of the things you are saying was true..... read that very carefully. Now i am going to bed. its late. peace
Yea i would prefer your responses were more concise. I am operating on my phone its hard to respond if its too long. Btw tadealis i wouldnt mind seeing or critiquing your thesis if you are open to that.
hahahaha np bro maybe if you have the time and you get on a computer sometime you can read it then lol i am done with this now anyway i just really find it funny how people on here giving out wrong information want to tell me of all people what my own religion tells me to do... and at the same time make up a load of complete nonsense either deliberaly or out of ignorance from what they have been told... its simply not true and i think i know what my own religion says thank you very much! I really am off to bed this time take it easy
You are telling me to go read but give me no reason to. I am not against your religion, i just wonder why you follow it.