I am curious how others view animals. I have a pet bird that I got from a relative who rescued it from the wild which I am fairly certain it would have died if it had been left alone. It is rehabilitated now, but at this point i am not sure if it would survive on its own, so i continue to care for it. I dont particularily like animals being held captive, but I give it the best captive life I imagine a bird could want. Which lead me to wonder, and also wonder what others think. What do you think of animals in captivity? How do you view and treat animals? Since we are more intelligent and capable, does that give us the authority to subdue less capable animals? Is it acceptable that we make slaves or shows of animals? I realize zoos contribute a great deal to preservation, but does the end justify the mean? Its not the animals fault that its species is endangered by human expansion. I find it sad that many only value animals as far as they contribute to human survival.
Eat it. No, but really, animals don't think about life. They live on instinct alone. Desires arise and they attempt to fulfill them. They're desires of the body, of the natural inclinations that they evolved to have. Animals can't philosophize, but in them they have the spark of reason, only far more subdued than what we humans have. They are, in a sense, the universe in evolution, just not on the stage of humans. Humans are considered to be the "quintessence" of the universe by certain philosophers of old, and why exactly is that? It is like, we are the universe refined, and animals are simply less refined than us, but we can still become so much more refined and "spiritualized". In essence, I believe that seeing our own nature usually causes unfettered compassion to flow towards all sentient beings. Cause and effect manifest on an ultimate scale in infinitely minute parts. Meaning, a world of many small yet good actions, makes a good world. It makes for evolution towards goodness. Fear and pain divides and detracts from the experience of this world, whereas love and openness and lack of fear brings harmony and unity. You can only see the moon in the waters at midnight if the lake is calm and serene.
A few thing to note. When I leave my dog outside, he clearly wants back in. He is much smarter than a fish and knows living with me is nice. A fish would probly swim away and.never come back. Is it wrong to have a fish tank? I like to think I am providing a life for these fish that they would otherwise not be privileged to. Also Humans are animals. It is actually very difficult to identify the traits that allow human levels of sophistication. We are clearly.smarter animals but, still animals. That being said, is it wrong to "own" a pet? Is it wrong to own a pet human? Is it OK to eat another animal just because it looks different than you? I'm starting to realize just how fucked up humans and their "logic" are. Is it really all shades of grey? The more I grow the more I realize. All the justifications of morality, apply to all animals and even fetuses. Otherwise you are saying rights are given by the masses and are not birth rights. If you believe all humans have birth rights, then why not animals? We don't need to eat animals anymore to survive. Our technology has evolved past that. Does responsibility not come with this power? We know for a fact that animals ha emotions, lives, feelings, and will to live. I've been struggling with this for a while. The one thing stopping me from becoming a vegan is addiction -yuri
This is false. And its easily proven. In fact you'd be hard pressed to explain logically how humans are different in this regard. Humans are also driving by instinct and desire, we just have a better ability to self control, when needed. Narcissistic Delusions of grandeur Yup -yuri
I feel similarly yuri. Another issue i have with not eating animals/by products is, there are many things readily available in aninals that plants dont provide. Like creatine/creatinine, EPA/DHA fatty acids, vitamin D. I can barely sustain my weight eating everything, i cant inagine trying to eat 2400 calories from plants (i already eat tons of beans, nuts and seeds to little avail). We could probably make a new thread for this, i am derailing my own thread lol. I agree with your first post here.
I view them as equals to humans. They have as much right to live on earth than we do. But obviously if I had to choose between saving a person and a dog, I'd save the person, but I'll still try to save that dog too. Why? Because it's a conscious living thing that feels pain and suffering. And living beings tend to not like that.
A stray cat wandered into a friend's house, gave birth, and left. After nursing the kittens to health. The friend contacted us asking if we would like a kitten. My girlfriend chose one. My girlfriend's sister chose one. Then another friend of our's chose another. We went to visit my girlfriend's sister and found that the cat was not necessarily given the best care. So we asked if we would take the cat home with us. We did. They've since had all their shots. Been spayed. And have been spoiled rotten with toys. We were ask adamant about not getting them declawed. All that said. I think that the care provided by my girlfriend and I is better than the care the biological mother provided, and to some level, even some humans could provide.
My bird is free to fly around my house all day except when i put it away to sleep for the night. Usually 7-9 hours in a cage for sleep, the rest she is free to fly.
I think I should say that I was speaking more on the principles that dominate our being. Animals obviously have the same capacities as humans, only in a lesser degree. Also it depends on the animal in question, but the very way I define animals is those beings that rely mostly on instinct and their own evolved nature. Humans have nurtured themselves into a very artificial lifestyle and this is where it differs a lot. Nature vs nurture. There is an element in the human mind that supersedes our regular instincts, those even of self preservation in many cases. Interesting and important to note IMO, humans can overcome their ego, transcend it. An animal would never be able to do that, perhaps only in the rarest cases. Animals have the capacity, they are only an extension of this natural world as we are, but they are physically limited. Our physical make-up is different. Now I don't know where you are getting these ideas that this is narcissistic and implies some delusions of grandeur, but all forms of measurement are arbitrary and subjective and for me, being itself is just a consolidation of forces that will again degrade and again consolidate. How can better and lesser exist in this world? I only point to the reality of it. Also, I want to say, humans can become animals and in a way, animals can become very human.
I try not to harm living things except asshole stink bugs, mosquitos, flies, and anything I deem annoying.
I would argue that a humans ability to rise "above instinct" is.infraction a survival instinct itself. I still see no difference between humans and other animals -yuri
So would you say a cat has the same intrinsic value as a human or both are equally valueless? Also, when you say survival, do you mean survival of the individual or the species?
At the moment, my dog loves food more than me. If i call him and someone drops a cheeto on the floor, he's going for the cheeto. If I was starving and I had to chose my dog or a sandwich, I'd do the same thing. Our physical needs hold value over our emotional needs. It's all about survival. I personally don't care about the feeling of animals, unless it is a matter of life or death of course, I won't neglect the feelings a bear 5 ft away from me. Animals are slaughtered on a daily basis for food, cloth, and other things that provide us humans with nourishment and protection. I care about them in a sense that humans rely on them for food, and we observe their natures to find ways that will contribute to society, such as a bee pollinating our flowers and making our cheerios taste a little better, cattle fertilizing our grass and sustaining our lives with their meat, etc., but as far as emotionally, nope. No connection. I won't deny, without other animals, humans lives would be fucked. I thought I wanted a dog because I wanted a companion, but I can find that same companionship in humans, I just can't cage them against their will...
When I'm in my zone, i feel it's wrong to exploit any animal, even dogs for OUR enjoyment. When I fizzle back to taught reality, I'm indifferent. I used to think going to the fish store, and rescuing a fish living in poor conditions, wool help the fish. In reality, it creates more demand for that fish and will result in more fish being taken from their homes. I stopped my aquarium hobby from thinking about this too much.
I don't see it as quantifiable. All sentience has a right to live life, and all animals are sentient. As for survival, I'd argue that humans ability of self control, isnt actually going against instincts. I'm also not talking about individual vs species. What I'm saying is that human intelligence is really still just animal intelligence. Our ability to chose not to eat so someone starving can eat for example, isn't unique to humans. It is based in another survival instinct that evolved in mammals and birds. Mutualism can also be a survival.instinct. -yuri
Look at this another way. The fish that do manage to get good homes, get to enjoy a good life that wouldn't be possible if it wasn't bred for consumers Fish literally benefit from being our pets. Or at least they should. I see nothing wrong with pets if they are well cared for. You see humans live at the eexpense of other animals. Your house was built on another animals home Having pets allows other animals to live in harmony with humans, in an otherwise hostile envirokent -yuri
What i meant was, were you referring to an individuals survival instict for itself or for its species? Risking/giving ones life for another isnt an individual survival instinct but it does aid in the survival of the species as a whole.
Lol. Well i was more thinking about undomesticated animals. Domesticated animals dont have the skills wild animals do, as they have been raised to rely on humans for too long. I didnt specify that i admit.
Anthropocentrism- Humans are the most significant life forms and the value of all other things is based on their usefulness to humans. Sentiocentrism- All beings that feel are intrinsically valuable and all other things hold value in relation to the needs of sentient beings. The ability to feel pleasure or pain is central to whether or not a being matters according to this philosophy. Biocentrism- All life holds intrinsic value. Every animal, plant, insect, and fungus is important. Nonliving matter is only as important as it is useful to living beings. Ecocentrism- The ecosystem itself is most valuable. Preserving the balance and diversity of the ecosystem is more important than any one being living inside of it. The species is more important than the organism, the group more important than the individual. I don't put all my stock in any one of these philosophies but I draw a little from each because all these different ideas can help us see things from different perspectives and weigh options in a few different ways when faced with a difficult decision.