This thread will chronicle my friends organic soil grow. I mainly have experience with hydro/aero, so any suggestions comments from more experienced soil growers is always welcome. Soil: Happy Frog Soil (it has microbes and fungi already in it) Hummus, azomite, micrhyzae, humic/fulvic acids, bat guano, blood meal, ewc, bio bizz, perlite...might be forgetting one or 2 ingredients. The soil was cooked for about 1 month and used for 1 cycle. Two to 3 weeks before use, the soil was watered weekly with, basically the veg aact recipe and stirred every couple days. Then during transplanting, microrhyzae with humic acid was mixed into the soil and sprinkled around root mass. Prior to being transplanted to the 4 gal pots, the seeds and seedlings were grown in just straight happy frog soil. Veg Room: 1x 1000w switchable air cooled, with an mh bulb running at 500w 1x 400w open reflector, with mh bulb (have yet to hang the matching 1000 watter instead of this light.) For ventilation, theres currently an 8" fan on a temp cotroller (this will be getting swapped to a 6" once it comes in, because the 8" fan at anything over 50% will try very hard to suck the tent door in lol). There's also 2 circulation fans. Flower Room (This will play as a veg room for this first cycle as its starting to get tight in the veg tent) This is what it looks like right now: 3x1000w 8" air cooled lights, one of these will be on a light mover. There will be supplemental co2 used during the flower stage, either via burner or tank. There are 5 very healthy and bushy fem. mom's (ghost train haze, sour power and blue dream) taken as clones from previous cycle. They're currently in 2gal pots. ...were transplanted to 4 gal pots during the move of week 5. The rest of plants were random bag seed planted 9 weeks ago. I had some temp issues at first, so they were a little stunted in the seedling stage. After adding 200w in heat pads on a controller, that solved that issue. The plants were under 4x2' & 2x4' fluorescents up until 3 weeks ago, when they were put under 900w of MH. Which is when they took off, a couple of plants stretched but for the most part they mainly got bushier. Its amazing how much of a difference an HID makes, should've switched from the fluoro's at least 2 weeks ago if not 4. Currently half the plants are in 4gal pots and the other half is root bound because they're still in solo cups. They will be getting transplanted over the next couple days. ...transplanted week 5 of veg/week 9 from seed I would love suggestions for the teas, but here are te tea recipes used so far: Seedling Tea (for 5 Gal): 5 Tbsp Mollases 5 Tsp Kelp 1 cup EWC This is the tea being used for the past 3 weeks, every 5-7 days. With plain water feedings in between. The RO system hasn't been set up yet, so its just city water that has set out for 24hrs. This is the latest tea recipe im using with notes. To accelerate the breakdown of chlorine/chloramines (I'm still figuring out the amounts): 1) ascorbic acid (its vitamin c powder, can be had $5 on amazon) 2) BSM 3) Mix in both ingredients into your water and let it bubble/brew for 4-24 hours before use. Veg Tea (for 5 Gal): 2 Tbsp Mollases 1 cup EWC 5 tsp kelp Microrhyzae, following packet directions Humic Acid, following packet directions (not using this in teas anymore as it apparently reduces bacterial count, how ever it will still be used in the soil during transplanting) Hygrozyme Fish hydrolycate Bush Doctor Sledgehammer
Hey KushMaster. WooHoo! First sub!! I get you're 1st harvest! lol Anyways. The tea question caught my eye. I'm big into teas and The basic recipe I use is; 1-2 cup EWC 15-30 ml Black strap molasses. 30 ml humic acid 30 ml kelp extract, (ie thrive alive b1) This recipe works great for 5 gallons. In regards to tea, as with organics, less is more! I also read that if you put the kelp extract in at hour 18 of a 24 hour brew. The kelp is mostly for fungi growth, and apparently the fungi doesn't really start growing until later in the brewing process. Putting the kelp in at the beginning can retard bacterial growth somehow. So I usually aerate the water all by itself for an hour or so, then add the humic acid and stir in, then the EWC. aerate for an hour, then add the BSM and brew for 24 hours, adding the kelp at hour 18. this info comes from Elaine Ingham's reaserch in AACT. Tea comes out great and the plants Love it!! Good luck in your gro man. Plaid PlaidBee's Indoor/OrganicThread
Welcome Dirt, thanks for the subscribe. No this isnt a first time, just first time with soil and in a new place. This cycle is going to be used to iron out all the kinks. I just got the joke about the first harvest thing after seeing it in some other posts lol. There are more beans on the way, with some proper genetics lol. Ill have t read up on elaine ingram..thanks for throwing that tid bit in there man, so i can do some of my own research too. Interesting point on adding the kelp later. I have just been pitting all the ingredients into a paint strainer and hanging it into a bucket then boiling for 24 hrs. I have been using just Grandma's mollasses, but I've been looking at high brix mollases at the hydro shop. Anybody have opinions as to any of the three types of mollases? Also, what are some good amendments to add to generate more fungi and/or more of the P-K ratio? Im used to just adding whatever nutrient I need in liquid nutes, so this whole organic thing is throwing me for a loop a little bit honestly. Stay tuned, I'm uploading pics later today once The flower room is finished.
So am I correct in understanding you're friend, lol, is not a first time grower, but it is his/her first time growing with organics? So I can do my best to answer ur questions, but first like to ask what does your soil mix consist of? I see you're planning to post the contents of your soil, so yeah. As for the Molasses. I not firmiliar with the brands you mentioned. All you really need to know is you need Black Strap Molasses(BSM). It's not as processed as the "fancy" or "baking" molasses. The BSM is rich in micronutrients as well as being an exellent chealteing agent and carbohydrate source for your microheard. Also, don't get the organic molasses. something to do with It not being heated to a high enough temperature while being processed. I think the heat kills pathogens? i'm not entierley sure. Just stick with the Regular Black Strap Molasses from the grocery store and you'll be good. Unless of course you can find a cheaper source of it say in a larger quantity. I'm trying to find a 2-3 gal. bucket. I dunno about that "high-brix" stuff. Sounds like an overpriced version of something easily aqquired elsewhere. I try and source as many things from stores other than the hydro shop. You can find all the ammendments you need in hardware stores or nurseries. I dunno where you live but in Canada, Home hardware has lots of ammendments in store, as well as an expanded list of things they will ship to your local store free of charge. I've seen the same ballast I have, for which I paid $150 cdn., for $240. I couldn't believe it. I promptly left the site, lol. ANd for P-K. I like Fishbone meal, bone meal, and rock phosphate for P. As for K, Kelp meal for sure, and of then of. course mined potassium sulfate. alfalfa meal also has some and is great for N-PandK, as it is naturally balanced, mine is 3-2-2. Don't foget about your secondary macro-nutrients. Magnessium, Calcium, and Sulfur. A common mistake for first time Organic soil users is not paying enough attention to these three. I really don't know enough to be giving you anymore information on how much of each nutrient you should have. This is a great Article if you really want to know about what to add and how much. It talks about Cations, and explains what they are, lol. It's what I'm reading this morning If you're not into getting quite that detailed, aim for a balanced soil. I use Gaia Green ammendments and They make an All-purpose, 4-4-4, and a Power Bloom, 2-8-4. Both of which contain a wide range of well-balanced nutrients. Check it out. I make these mixes the "Base Mix" for my soil and add more of a few of my favorite nutes to bring it up a bit. The soil that's cycling now has 4-4-4, Bat guano 0-13-1, epsom salts, dolominte lime. 4-4-4- Alfalfa meal, bone meal, blood meal, glacial rock dust, mined potassium sulphate, fossilized carbon complex, rock phosphate, greensand, kelp meal, gypsum. There is a ton of wisdom on these pages man. These are a few threads you might find interesting. Easy Organic Soil Mix for Beginners Foliars ACT - Aerated Compost Tea Organic Higher Learning & Resources http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/650139-organic-higher-learning-resources.html That last one I just found. Looks great! Well, looking forward to seeing your mix. Later, Plaid Oh yeah, you asked about ammendments for fungi. If you have Mycorrhizae, you should be good. It's powder right? just dust it onto your plants roots when you transplant them from seedling or clone. I dunno what you have there but VAM, or Subculture-M are both good products. BTW--here's my thread PlaidBee's Indoor/OrganicThread
Finished transplanting last night and humping all the plants down the stairs around 3 am. So I'm starting to get a pest problem, fungus gnats it looks like. So the plants and soil were sprayed with neem oil and soap. Also places some sticky traps and bought some ground glass shards to put on top of the soil to kill the larvae. Unfortunately the bag I bought, only treated a third of the plants. Tmrw while watering ill get more glass and throw in some nematodes into the water. I was going to look into using some pesticides if I don't see any results on the flying gnats. Ill give the nematodes four weeks to kill any larvae and keep spraying with neem oil weekly. Anyone have suggestions to pest management?
Hey man. Everything looks great so far. Don't you love those Intake/exhaust reflector hoods? I sure do, get that light nice and close. I've got one in my 4x4x7 box. A must for that small space! As far as pest management goes, I have learned three very important factors in controlling pests; Prevention, prevention, prevention, lol. I've had fungus gnats and since I switched to Organics I haven't been able to get rid of those bastards! Been able to control them a little, keep them at bay, but Organics is all about keeping that soil moist. I don't know where you live, but Pokesmot lives in an area where there are fungus gnats outdoors all year 'round. He deals with them on a daily basis and has literally tried everything there is to try in terms or products and methods for fungus gnat removal. I'm sure he can help you. He's also a great source of information on a wide range of subjects and a really nice dude to boot. In fact, Pokesmot has dedicated the remainder of his life to helping people learn how to cultivate this amazing plant we all love so much! Check him out, ask him a question and I can actually safely guarantee that he, or someone else on his thread WILL answer you. It's a great place to learn and meet like-minded blades. Quote that blurb above and you'll get a bunch of answers, lol Take it easy man Plaid PlaidBee's Indoor/OrganicThread
Yeah prevention would have been the easier method. When they were first discovered them, there were only a couple, three days later...with 10 sticky traps up, each one has a couple gnats stuck to it. Today the nematodes are joining the fight. Ill look up Pokesmot, he's on GC right? Thanks for all the links Plaid, I spent last night reading all those threads and taking crap loads of notes...lots of great info man! The one downside to air cooled lights is the tempered glass cuts down on some of the uv wavelengths.
Hey Man. hope you're havin' a good weekend. Just thought I'd post Pokesmot's Fungus Gnat info post for you. It's worth a read and all as you can see, I wasn't joking when I said that Poke's tried it all when it comes to Fungus gnats. Later Plaid
Holy shit yeah he has. I feel bad for him, that shit sounds like a real chore. It seems like hes not that active on GC anymore. The most recent is like 2012. The gnat numbers are down quite a bit, the fly strips are catching a few here and there now instead of 10-20 every few 15mins (yeah i counted lol). The nematodes with waterings combined with the neem oil through foliar seem to be working pretty good. On top of all that, I bought some spinosad for foliar and soaks. Along with dichemous earth and neem cake/meal for top dressing & mixing into the soil as a preventative measure.
Who? Poke? He post regularly man. I talk to him every couple days. He sent me that list of gnat weapons(lol) to send you. \tAdvancedLED XML 650 X2 (15+ strains) \tPoke's Perpetual Underground Jungle (15+ strains) Both great threads. The first one is his newest thread using the new LED that's not even on the market yet! He does a bunch of test grows for seed companies as well. Good stuff! Some Other knowledgeable (mostly)Organic CG'ers are; Clackamas Coot, thomasjefferson, Ironhead, August West, HTownBudz. There's more for sure but that's what I can think of off hand. Also THE thread that made me finally join up on GC was this ACT thread done by MIcrobeman. The funny thing is that by the time I joined. he had moved to a more specialized forum and MicrobeOrganics His OWN poage The forum is The Logical Gardener Those last three all amazing if you want to understand what's happening in your organic soils. Well, hope they help. Maybe just "Follow" them and refer to them when needed or your more interested. You will be I think. you sound like you like to research a bit. Take care man Plaid
The search engine in this forum blows. For some reason it was inly showing me super old threads of his. Sweet, I'll look them up. Yeah microbe man! Ive seen a couple of his videos and write ups he seems like a guy that knows a thing or two..or three lol. Hell yeah man, that's the idea with this science experiment, get a grasp in whats going on in that soil.
Yeah man. Tha's what I'm into as well. Soil soil soil! If you want an informative read onmicrobes, fungi and the soil food web, 'Teeming With Microbes" is a great read. Poke just asked about you actually. He asked if I had sent you his way or not? So send him a Private message. He's expecting to hear from you. Tell him you're the guy PlaidBee sent over. lol. Post up some pics man. I'm interested to see how things are taking shape for you. Later Plaid
Hey buddy figured id pop in and say hello so you know im still here haha! Looks like plaid's got ya covered well. Gimme a shout if you need any direction! ~ poke