Are low functioning people lesser beings?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by jayfoxpox, Jan 29, 2015.

  1. #1 jayfoxpox, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
    First off, I'd like to state that I am in the occupation that involves helping a people with mental disabilities that range from low functioning to high functioning.
     
    Many of us are will probably say "of course they're not lesser beings", yet at the same time we're willing to admit that they should not reproduce. By denying this aspect of their nature are we at the same time admitting that they are lesser beings? Their mental functions may be impaired but, it's very clear that they are still sexual creatures that would like to get a sexual partner. Males that can barely speak 1 or 2 words would stare at the opposite sex and at the same time they most likely don't even know how to masturbate despite being 18+. Slightly higher functioning ones that can speak full sentences will try to flirt with their support workers of the opposite sex or people in public. I even saw a guy with down syndrome gave a girl  a wet kiss on the hand during her date. If two mentally impaired individuals start getting closer the community will try prevent this relationship from becoming a sexual relationship. This is a topic that seems to be taboo and society does not feel comfortable discussing the fact that they do indeed have sexual desires just like any individual.
     
     
    Another point to be made, is that if a fetus gives indication that it will progress into an individual that will live long ,but would have an IQ of 50, the carrier would understandably want an abortion.

     
  2. Depends i would say. Morally i think they should be treated as lovingly as we should treat anyone else.

    They are obviously physically/mentally lesser, or else they wouldnt require your gracious work. If left to nature, its likely they wouldnt survive or reproduce. I cannot imagine having sexual desires and being unable or unknowing of how to satisfy it.
     
  3. The "reptilian" aspects of our neurological structuring are hard wired in....The desire to eat, fuck ( maybe in their case, unknowing procreation) and feel safe...not much higher functioning required to possess those aspects of humanity. Lesser beings? Lesser in our perceptions sure, lesser from their own, I doubt it.
     
  4. I often wonder if they are just busy generating some universe inside them that they are so detached from our world. Like if you focused all your being into something else you would appear gone from this end, ala drugs.
     
    food for thought
     
  5. #5 Messiah Decoy, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
    It depends on how you define "lesser".

    We think of animals as lessers because they can't do the sophisticated things humans do.

    But is a dog that saves a child from an intruder a lesser being than a human pedophile or sociopath who have brought more suffering to the world than joy?

    The 50 IQ fetus is a complex issue. I think any parent who knowingly takes on such a challenge and loves the child unconditionally is comparable to a saint.

    The problem is most parents aren't saint-like and can barely fully appreciate children with minor imperfections.
     
  6. I think the idea of lesser must always exist within a context, and that idea changes depending on the context. The key concept the idea of lesser is applying to here would be "being". I think it is appropriate to say that being occurs fundamentally at the basis of our reality, and we separate this one singular ultimate being into separate beings according to relevance. Thusly, we wouldn't point at a single organ or cell of a human and distinguish it as a separate being, it is rather pertinent for us to recognize the entire human being as one being.
     
    Now, what does it mean to be a lesser or greater being. Is a being determined to be lesser based on it's sphere of interactivity within the world? Based on it's influence and potential for interaction within the world? If so, then perhaps a low functioning person is a lesser being than a high functioning person, but does this have the impact on the value we place in the relationships we have with such people? We are all having countless relationships with the world. From our relationship with water and air to our relationship with cats and dogs. We might interact differently and have different things to learn and different experiences, but the idea of lesser or greater being is a pointless distinction in any case, unless you have ha-umai and lack awareness of our unified being.
     
  7. Once humanity realized its own insignificance, and gazed upon the vastness of the universe; we realized that all is relative.

    The point of life is to live.

    We have evolved past the need for ideas that everyone must contribute to society as a whole to be of value to society.

    All life is precious. It is the responsibility of the strong to help the weak.

    It is the responsibility of humanity, to work together for eachother, so all may enjoy life.

    We are not wolves anymore. Long past are the days where we need yo claw our way to the top and be the best.

    We are not ants. Long gone are the days where every ant serves the colony, and the queen.

    We are people. We should act like it.

    -yuri
     
  8. i don't think they are lesser but they have a different function in society, how they effect us as a species i'm not sure. now the question of avoiding the conception of two mentally handicap is a tougher one. i would say let them have kids only if someone is wiling to legally sign as guardian for the child in case the parents are deemed unworthy of parenthood. but if a girl get's pregnant then they should  keep the baby.unless she clearly doesn't want it and it meets my abortion ideals, as she wouldn't have the ability to choose for an abortion and i don't think anyone should be choosing that for her. what are the chances of a retarded child coming from two retarded parents anyway? 
     
    i never thought about this before and i'm thinking everyone would be scared of promoting dysgenics. but i don't think it would have such a negative impact on our species. sure there might be a few more retarded children to take care of but maybe it would make us more compassionate as a species. better teamwork, which we all know is productive. i don't think we have to promote sex to them but what parents actually promote sex to there kids?well maybe they do at times but not that much.  society does all the time though and if they are sharp enough to pick up on it or if they have enough love to give to someone then they should not be discouraged from having sex. tough question. just take it slow like there education
     
  9. What happens when there is artificial intelligence that can solve economic problems in hours, write a great novel in minutes, and solve complex math equations in a microsecond.

    Do you still determine a humans value based on raw intelligence when all our abilities are dwarfed by robots.
     
  10. Wow, this thread contain a lot of difficult words for us who have this "englizhhhh" as our third language, but I'll participate as good as I can. I'd prefer to do it in my native or french though.
     
    I believe low function people are less of a convenience to society, but as a person? No. 
    Personalities are different, and all lives are worth the same in my opinion. If you're an Iraqi 8 year old killed but George W. Bush you are just as valuable as a 42 year old Italian man or a 88 year old American woman.
     
    No, retards can't work. But come on guys, what kind of society do we want to live in? 
     
    I prefer one where nobody is judged by their sexual preferences, religion, ethnicity or looks. To be honest I'm a filthy rich white jewish guy. I still have many gay friends, muslim friends, hindu friends and christian friends. My coolest friends are actually the buddhists. Have you ever been around a real buddhist? God, those guys are chill. I smoke with one two, and he keeps quoting Buddha.
     
    God damnit that is funny. 
     
  11. your comment makes me wanna write a book about reincarnation. we would start off as a bacteria on an atom and every time we die we gain a little more awareness.
     
  12. Damn I didnt know they made bacteria that small :p


    Btw, whats up Jay? Been a while.


    I really wish we understood retarded people better, I often wonder what reality is to them. Superficially it seems like a miserable life, depending on the condition, but this is from my vantage. Maybe they are half here and half in psychedelic land, and if they weren't so mesmerized by their awesome reality they'd feel bad for us. I try to put myself in their shoes, but i can only do so in relation to my reality, since I dont know what their reality I assume I'd prefer my own. I know being physically handicapped people are in my reality, so I couls begin to empathize, but a mental handicap is unimaginable to me. Tell me jay, whats it like working with them? Do you feel sorry for them? Are you grateful you are not in their shoes? Does it make you appreciate what you have? How do they respond to loving actions as opposed to harshness? I am sure it depends on their personal condition and life experience but I'd appreciate your general insight.

    Also, do you view it as you helping them or more of a mutual experience?
     
  13. Good answers in this thread...I've struggled to come to any ideas about or for retards (let's be honest). In no way are they lesser beings, it would be an injustice to Instill it in your head if you were to think you are better than them. May they fuck and have kids? Sure. Why completely inhibit their freedom?
     
  14. I also work with those kind of people. Everything from grown people with the mentality of a child, to completely paralyzed to the kind of people who don't seem to have any consciousness whatsoever.
     
    I try to avoid to talk about this subject because I can't imagine what kind of pain their families have to suffer. It's such a sensitive topic.
     
    First off I should point out that my job only consists of driving them from A to B. I work as a "county sanctioned mobility service driver".
     
    Anyone who's too old, sick or handicapped to use public transportation get to call a company set up by the county (part of public trans.) and they send us the fare on a smart phone attached to the car we'll drive them to where ever they want to go within the county borders and the tax payers will cover the fare.
     
    This includes anyone who's been at any hospital and deemed unable to get home on their own. My favorite fares are middle aged men high on morphine. They become so open about everything. They talk about their fears, aspirations, mistakes, families. They give advice, they listen. Most of them are given morphine because of kidney stones if anyone wants to know, so their not junkies. But I digress.
     
    Only a small group of my fares have any learning disabilities. Most of them are just old.
     
    A different part of our job is to drive handicapped kids from home to school and back (my boss landed an contract with the city). Some have very, very, very mild learning disabilities, some are completely out of it and everything in between. And the school process for the ones who are completely out of it... it perplexes me.
     
    Imagine kids who can't walk, communicate or do anything else for that matter. Just sit in a wheelchair and stare out into space go to school everyday where they... teach them things. They point to a picture and say "car, car, car", "dog, dog, dog". Why are you wasting resources on this?? In case they someday magically start walking and talking they should have basic linguistic abilities?!
     
    The way I see it the meaning of life is to survive and reproduce. The end.
     
    So are they lesser beings? In my painful opinion, yes. They're alive because the government doesn't allow any other option (dunno what their parents would do if there were other options). They can't reproduce, they can't survive on their own. They don't offer society anything.
     
    Their families end up throwing them in some group home when they're 18 anyway, that's a fact. There they'll live FOREVER. Seriously some of the people I drive are in their 60's-80's and spent their entire lives in wheelchairs like virtually dead people.
     
    But the ones who have the mentality of a child. That's more complicated. They're children. They annoy the shit out of me but they're children stuck in the bodies of adults. It breaks my heart. I want to hug them but they smell and drool and pick their noses and say stupid things.
     
    I don't know. I've never thought about it this extensively.
     
    I wanna say that anyone who's not mentally capable to grasp what "you're supposed to understand" is a lesser being but something inside of me says "that's wrong". Am I being condescending? Cynical?
     
    Maybe the point of life is to live and we're helping these people achieve their only true goal. To live.
     
    Money, science, love, work, friendship, family those are all toppings. Everything is relative except for survival? But people commit suicide, it's done out of immense pain but that sort of means that survival isn't the foremost priority. It's living well. Living comfortably. We all have our thresholds, there's a scenario where every one of us would take our own lives.
     
    Do they want to die?! Are we being selfish for forcing life upon them?!
     
    I need to find a new job.
     
  15. Asteroid cone kill us all please
     
  16. Yea, I've been good.
     
    I worked with this individual for 2 years, and he's basically a 2 year old inside an 18 year old body. I'd say he's stuck in his own little world like 90% of the time, just staring at his hands, then starts giggling and babbling. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand I know i'm providing a nurturing environment for him and taking tremendous pressure off of the single mother who has two autistic sons. on the other, I feel like I'm failing him, since he hasn't really progressed despite my efforts trying to teach him basic things like which bathroom to go to or how to tie his shoe.He doesn't even know how to distinguish meat from bone so if I brought him to kfc I'd have to cut the meat off for him. I've really bonded with him over the years and I love him to bits, but I can't help but worry about his future, since once his mom is gone, there isn't anyone left to take care of him and most likely would be just placed in some old folks home. I know he's probably happy like 99% of the time, since he basically gets what he wants like playing the wii all day or when i'm with him, I take him out he gets to choose where ever to eat and what activity to do, which he requires pictures to be able to make the choice.
     
    He does not recognize most of the social signals, like a high five or hug, except a smile. I feel like the objective of my job is an impossible task, since i'm supposed to make him more independent, but his verbal production and receptive abilities are really limited and he isn't really open to learning new things.He's just really helpless, and so I have a lot of pity for him.
     
  17. #17 Dryice, Jan 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2015
    How we view things as society is a bit different to how nature views things. If you take a naturalistic stance, absolutely they're lesser beings and would likely have died had higher functioning humans not taken the responsibility of taking care of them. But of course, you yourself already demonstrated that society has an active interest in caring for people with disabilities. So I think there's some sort of equilibrium between 'normal' human and 'lesser' human. I'd think it's probably fair to say, society doesn't want to encourage low IQ members breeding, but they also don't want them to just needlessly die. I think there's always a balance in play like there is an all ethical dilemmas. Stuck between sacred Hindu cows, and the eugenics of Nazi Germany.
     

Share This Page