Outdoor bed advice

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by newhobbyfarmer, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. Ok, Guys. I'm the most indecisive person, so I need your help, please.

    I have chickens and their gorgeous winter litter and tons (literally) of aged horse manure taken from the back of the poo pile. I can't call it "done or safe" because who ever knows for sure. I don't! The manure has very little straw, clumps, or verifiable apples which makes me think it's pretty well aged. I also have kelp, alfalfa, neem, perlite, spm, and many other miscellaneous gardening supplies and amendments.

    I just moved a raised bed frame to start a new bed. Onto the hard winter ground I put down alfalfa pellets, neem, kelp, rock dust, then about 4-6 inches of manure. I then added some more neem & kelp then piled on about 4 inches of chicken litter made up of pine shavings. I watered the whole shebang and covered it with some cardboard to keep the moisture in and the chickens out. It's so pretty....for now.

    My dilemma is, should I mix it all up now & frequently or should I just keep it moist for the next 2 months while spring gets started? Then, in a few months I can pull back the layers & decide if I should till it all up & add aeration & amendments before I begin using it no till forever....or until I change my indecisive mind again.

    What would you guys suggest?
     
  2. Oh yeah, and I have a second bed to build tomorrow if the weather holds out. So if you have any advice for that one too, please.
     
  3. #3 Anatman, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
    I'd treat it similar to a compost pile; turn it regularly in the beginning (once or twice a week), then LITFA. The turning will help the decomposition of your alfalfa, neem, kelp... and help evenly distribute everything. Letting it rest will then allow bacteria and (beneficial)fungi to populate your soil.
     
    I built 2 raised beds last year and filled them lasagna-style with my horse manure: Laid down cardboard over the grass, then alternated layers of manure and straw. I let this sit for ~2 months before I planted into it, and everything I grew did well. This year, however, I've just dragged my tiller into the beds and tilled everything up. When I'm all done mixing, I'm going to top with straw mulch. With soil as good as you're preparing, anything and everything's going to try to grow in it.
     
  4. Check out hugelkultur, it's a cool idea and works well. An old german growing technique using treelogs to condition the soil.
    I use it on a much smaller scale in my no-till pots.
    Works fabulous outside and you really do water less.
     
  5. #5 Anatman, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
    I got a hugel bed about 10 feet away from these, and in my bigger raised bed I've just added a couple decomposing logs I drug from my woods.
    :laughing:
     
    The decomposing wood will add a lot of beneficial microorganism and fungi, and it acts as a sponge to retain water, leaving you with much less work. I know there are a few around these forums (Jerry, maybe?)that practice putting some wood chunks at the bottom of their plant pots.
     
  6. I'm afraid this chicken litter, the pine shavings are too fine too bury. That they'll actually cause N deficiency as they decompose so quickly. I could bury any of the treefall we have laying around. The ground is still frozen, though, so I can't dig very deep to start a hugel bed. Unless what I remember about hugel is wrong. Let's face it, that's a distinct possibility.
     
  7. I would make sure to add wood that's already decomposing and has been laying on the ground for a while, as well as some more freshly fallen/cut.
     
    My hugel bed is not dug down, I've just framed it out with some logs. It's also not that large so I wasn't pressed for space to put my wood.
     
    Here's an interesting diagram by Sepp Holzer
    [​IMG]
     
  8. #8 Greasemonkeyman, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2015
    Ironic you mentioned that, I live in a redwood forest and have been putting rotten chunks of wood in my pots for 2 yrs now, I started because i saw this huge ivy plant growing on the base of thise totally rotten stump and it was like glowing green it was so vibrant, so I kinda did some experimenting and there I was, in fact I did it prior to using many of the nutrients I use now, I initially i just added a bunch of rotten wood to bagged vermifire and did only that.
    Now all my 15 gallon no-till have a bunch of wood in them, with the biochar and the volcanic rock/pumice I have and it seems the soil is consistently... hmm.. not moist but lightly damp, i'd describe it as humid? I have a topdress of forest moss to help with transpiration of water but even in dry conditions the soil really does hold its water well, and my plants are seemingly loving it, but not to toot my own horn ( I have learned a lot in the past couple decades) but my soil mix is just about perfect, at least for my style of growing.
    Roots go nuts though, and for no-till you can't beat it, I need to get some pics to show what i'm talking about, but I also have squared rotten logs on the top of the soil too, to allow for a lil mound there, sorta like a mini pyramid.
    I swear, I think i'm the weird one that likes growing pot more than smoking it.
    Not that I don't love smoking it...
    But from the wormbins, to the compost piles, to the comfrey/horsetail/aloe plants, to playin in the soil and compost piles... Good dirty fun guys... gooooood dirty fun.
    I really want to do an outdoor full hugelkultur thing, but I don't own this property and it's a good amount of heavy lifting too, and my back is sorta crappy
     
  9. Thanks guys. Your advice seems in line with what I was trying to accomplish. It's nice to get some kind of confirmation. It often seems like the more I read, the less I understand.

    I'm going to turn my bed as an in place compost pile for a few (6-8) weeks, then just let her rest and filter until planting starts. I'll throw some extra spongy logs into the middle before the resting period but after composting.

    I, too, absolutely love the processes involved in this growing style and in gardening in general. I wish I could find people like us in real life. At least we get to chat about it here!
     
  10. This is inspiring me to possibly do a small hugelkultur setup along the edges of my plot. I had one pile already started that just needs buried. Lots more wood laying around though, hmm...
     
  11. #11 RanchoDeluxe, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
    Check out this chart.  An ideal compost pile will have a 30:1 C:N ratio.  Chicken manure is a strong Nitrogen source. I don't think you'll have much to worry about w/ the pine shavings.  It may be that you actually need more Carbon.
     
    View attachment cnratio.pdf
     
    I would not till the soil.  All this will accomplish is the death of worms and it will also bring weed seeds up to the surface that otherwise would remain dormant. permies.com has some good info on Hugel's if I remember correctly.
     
  12. #12 newhobbyfarmer, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
    Oh, believe me. I don't want to till the soil. It's just that our ground is so hard packed out here. I know that with layers, moisture, and time mother nature will do most of the work.....But I'm ready to play in the dirt now. So, my original plan was to wait and see how the ground looks closer to planting time before I decide if it needs tilled once before I use it for the next several years....or until I change my mind again.
     
  13. #13 mjmama25, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
    I'd add in some Greensand and bone meal or high p guano. It seems like you have plenty of N and trace minerals but not a lot of P-K.

    Edit- I guess your horse manure has a pretty good NPK ratio. I still like to have the diversity of ingredients.
     
  14. Potatoes are a great way to bust up the hard ground under your bed. A faster way to turn the material in your bed into an actual finished compost would be to make a proper compost pile. Not only will it be faster, but if you reach the proper temp, you will kill any weed seeds in the horse manure.  A proper compost pile should be 3'x3'x3' or 1 cubic yard.  Most likely you have already planted your entire bed w/ weed seeds.
     
    Good Luck
    RD
     
  15. That's okay too. I'm pretty sure the manure is mostly, if not completely, composted. The pile is easily 10 ft high, and added to at the front. My cache came from the back so I know it's been there a while. Even if there are weeds in it, everything I've read suggests that, with enough mulch, the weeds are easy to pull out. That's good enough for me, as long as my veggies can grow and produce throughout the summer. I enjoy the process so much more than the produce.
     
  16. Were the horses ever fed hay?

    horse quality hay tends to have herbacide unless its alfalfa.

    I've gotten herbicide damage from horse manure that's been composted for 2 years. 2 4-d is a very persists t herbicide commonly used in pastures.
     
  17. Yes, I'm sure the horses had hay. Here's the thing. I live in agriculture country. Two years ago my own family laughed at me for just uttering the word "organic". I do my best to grow as naturally as I can, but trees don't even survive the field overspray around here. What I'm saying is, I do the best I can to grow as naturally as I can, within reason for my area. Things are getting easier to find, but the shipping costs, not only financial, but environmentally as well, mean I must make a few concessions in my plans. Also, I plan on adding so many flower beds this year that getting material in bulk and locally is very important this year. I'm in it for the activity, to be outside, in the sun, with my hands in the dirt. Even if it takes me years, my hobby keeps me happy...and busy.

    I do really appreciate every piece of advice I've gotten so far! Its refreshing to be able to "discuss" gardening with real people who have intelligent, relevant opinions!
    Thanks Y'all
     
  18. Hay fields don't get sprayed anywhere near me. Why would they? It's hay... Why on earth would anyone spray an herbicide on a hay field?

    J
     
  19. #19 newhobbyfarmer, Feb 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2015
    I was wondering about that too. The crop fields around me get sprayed frequently, though, so I don't pretend to know what these farmers are doing.
     
  20. Of course I understand why crops get sprayed - to keep weeds down. At least around me, hey fields are a different story. It's basically grass that's allowed to grow to a certain height and then is mowed down, allowed to dry and then baled. I could see a specialty hay like Alfalfa or Timothy being sprayed to keep down any other grasses but around here the hayfields are basically big grass fields and at least as far as I know they are not sprayed with anything.

    We have a horse that primarily lives on hay with the exception of a little bit of grain, A few apples and carrots here and there, but for the most part it's just hay. I've been using the horse manure in my compost heaps for many years now with no issues, and rather tremendous success instead.

    Maybe it's different in certain parts of the country but around here to my knowledge hey fields are not sprayed with herbicide.

    J
     

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