Organic Soil *Icing on cake*

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by nappyvibe, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. The following is the organic soil mix that I have planned for my upcoming grow, My first grow:
     
    Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss
    Perlite (No slow release)
    Humus
    Compost
    Earthworm castings (EWC)
    Kelp meal
    Alfalfa meal
    Crab meal
    Neem meal
    Lime (no fast acting lime)
    Azomite (mineral)
    Blackstrap unsulfured molasses? maybe in small amount to feed microbes
     
    I feel like I have worn out the internet researching for my grow the past couple months. Now I'm turning to actual direct interactive advice for ways improve my soil mix here based on your experiences, and possibly make my first grow equal to or more awesome than a grower with more than a few successful harvests under their belt.
     
    The following is the "tea" that I am planning to use for foliar feeding and for every other watering for my grow, My first grow:
     
    Guano
    Water (dechlorinated)
    Blackstrap unsulfured molasses
    EWC
    Kelp
     
    Any constructive criticism will be appreciated !!
     
     

     
  2. I forgot to add fulvic acid and humic acid to the foliar spray and tea. pH will be tested of every solution before ever touching medium or plant
     
  3. Why lime. I would take out the lime. The azomite I've heard mixed stuff about the mineral content. The rest seems cool. Mabey for your minerals use a glacial rock dust or go to Buildasoil.com and they have all the rock dust you need.
    I'm using kelp meal, neem and Karajan cake, crustacean meal, gypsum dust, glacial rock dust, and oyster flower. Those are the minerals and additions. The main parts of the soil is the same using a 5 gallon bucket as 3/3.
    2/3 worm castings, 1/3 good aged black compost, 3/3 peat moss 2/3 perlite, and 1/3 rice hulls. NOw you can use perlite for rice hulls. And I would cut the recipe down. It makes alot. All of the amendments are 1/2 per cu ft of the 5 gallon bucket ingredients. 7.5 gallons is a cu ft. I thinks it's 2 1/2 cu ft. Mabey it helps. Yours is a good ingredients. I tried to help with the amounts.
     
  4. Substitute the lime for oyster shell powder and the azomite for rock dust and you are golden my man.
     
  5. Never been real sure about the molasses in the soil. I want my microbes feeding on the materials in my soil and getting sugars from my plants. I do use it for compost tea though.
     
  6. #6 GiMiK, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
     
    Or simply use whats available...I personally try to avoid dolimtic limestone when searching for a calcium source but it works in a pinch for horticulture. I sourced oyster shells the first couple soil mixes I made, then sourced agricultural lime and have been using it since to the same benefit, for a much more sensible price.
     
    CaCO3 is all you need from a liming agent...let the price and availability dictate what you use, within reason.
     
    View attachment Understanding Lime, pH and Calcium.pdf
    View attachment Choosing Between Liming Materials.pdf
    View attachment Calcium and Magnesium.pdf
     
    The deal with azomite is its an aluminosilicate, not a true "rock dust" like granite or basalt fines (crusher dust). It also contributes to worries down the road because of its high aluminum content, which may become more available over time than is optimal for plant health, especially in conjunction with regular usage of fulvic acid.
     
    View attachment A Rock Dust Primer.pdf
     
    http://remineralize.org/why-remineralize/
     
    View attachment Co-utilization-of-Rockdust-Mineral-Fines-and-Compost.pdf
     
    Thirdly, I would simplify the "tea" you're trying to combine into two separate applications. One with 1/2 cup kelp per 5 gallon bucket of water, agitated by air pump or hand for 24 - 48 hours; strain and apply as foliar or simply use on the soil as a drench.
     
    The other requires an air pump (a diaphragm pump for anything larger than 1 gallon), 1/2 cup EWC/compost and 2 TSP of black strap molasses. Bubble for 36 hours at room temperature and apply as a drench or foliar application. This site below explains what purpose this process serves and the parameters for a successful "brew".
     
    http://microbeorganics.com/
     
    I highly advise you to use the search engine here and look up the specifics on the materials and processes recommended here and throughout GCO.
     
    Here's a good place to start, but read it all the way through it before just going "all in" with whatever materials come to mind for "teas".
     
    http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/951823-botanicals.html
     
     
    Believe me when I state there is more information throughout this forum than you can work through in a single year.
     
  7.  
    You might really want to hold off the the humic and fulvic for a couple of grows at least, so when you over do it and get weird growth you'll know what to look at, and you will over do it. I did, and this was with 40 years experience. :eek:
     
    The EWC will supply all you need.
     
    Read the links GiMiK provided, use the lime, and put the pH tester in a drawer. Or, refrain from spending the money if you haven't bought one yet.
     
    Wet
     
  8. It would be nice to know exactly what your soil mix is going to be.  Listing a bunch of amendments really doesn't help without knowing what proportions they are going to be used at.
     
    If you build a proper soil you can throw away that pH meter.
     
  9. it sounds like you have indeed done your homework, like the others have said, i'd leave out the lime, and humic acids.
    usually a feed store will have oyster shells for the chickens, that's really good for aeration as well as counter acidity, of course its not much that's why you want oyster flour as well, if you are re-using your soil or may be thinking about it in the future you'll want more "permanent" aeration, like pumice, volcanic rock, etc. Rice hulls and perlite I don't like, vermiculite is good stuff (great CEC) but breaks down over time as well.
    Also may want to consider biochar, greensand, and fish bone meal if you re-use your soil. Those all break down VERY slowly so it's good to have in an reusable soil... I love me some rotten wood chunks also... sorta like a small hugelkultur thing... I love the stuff, and if you notill it's ideal.
    also remember that crab meal helps with acidity also.
    I don't use molasses for anything other than teas, and i' highly urge you to consider NOT using it for your soil... It's reaaaly easy to foul stuff up.
    Don't get me wrong BSM is a must have for organics and composting. BUt I don't like it used solely for a nutrient source.
    PLUS in that well of an amended soil? you aren't gonna have to give them much food, if any.... but you're talking to a guy that is a VERY light feeder. I amend and forget the traditional nute teas.. unless you count aact/SST/aloe/horsetail/dandelion/comfrey teas.
     
  10. Thanks!
     
  11. What pros does rock dust have over azomite?
    Much appreciated man, dropped knowledge and gave guidance my grow will be better because so
     
  12.  
    GiMiK 
     
    Thank you so much!!!
     
    You have managed to say in one short paragraph what I've been trying to say for several years AFA lime goes, getting right down to the real nitty gritty.  :yay:
     
    I still use Azomite, in much reduced amounts, and stopped any 'extra' humic/fulvic a couple of years ago at least. Simply no need for it with your own VC.
     
    CaCO3 for the win!.
     
    Wet
     
  13. #13 GiMiK, Jan 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
    I utilize fulvic acid regularly (once a week with a SST and in any neem oil or kelp foliar application) so I shied away from using azomite in soil mixes after making it part of my management routine.
     
    I dont really see a need for azomite when you utilize micronized rock fines in multiple aspects like Coot suggests (VC, compost and soil mixes) nor do I believe I'm lacking in available trace nutrition due to the usage of ascophyllum nodosum (kelp meal), as a source of trace elements, PGRs and as a chelating agent within the soil.
     
    Seriously wish Chunk still had his 'kelp only' grow pics still up...kelp is a very useful material for managing and enhancing soil fertility as well as plant health. I didn't fully understand just how useful it is until I picked up this book, based on LD's advice. 
     
    002.JPG
     
    Worth every cent I spent on it.  :smoke:
     
  14. #14 GiMiK, Jan 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
     
     
    Aluminosilicate minerals are minerals composed of aluminiumsilicon, and oxygen, plus countercations. They are a major component of kaolin and other clay minerals.
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminosilicate
     
     
    While it is technically a "rock dust" it has a high concentration of heavy metals in comparison to granite or basalt fines, which can be harmful if used at the recommended application (2-4 cups per c.f.) in long term no tills, especially in conjunction with additional fulvic or humic inputs. 
     
    With that being said I would still recommend using it as a source of minerals in your soil if you cannot source 'rock dust' locally for cheaper, with the one prerequisite being a micronized form only.
     
    I would suggest looking up concrete dump sites/ sand and gravel companies in your area and ask for crusher dust, minus #200 mesh, classifier tailings or pond settlings. I can get my trucks bed filled for $20 at a nearby pit.....thats something like a 1/2 yard for less than half the price of a 40 lb bag.
     
    Here's a great thread on rock dust and it's impact on our soil management. I highly recommend reading through this when you get the time to.
     
    http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1111289-rock-dust.html
     
     
    And here's a quote I dug up from a bit back on the aluminum deal.
     
    While not the most pressing of concerns I build my soils to last longer than I, so I plan for the long term management as best I can.
     
     
     
  15. I've read lime helps balance the pH from the acidic peat moss. Thanks buildasoil.com sounds good
     
  16. Lime does balance the ph but I trust oyster shells more.
     
  17.  
    Why?
     
    Not trying to be a dick or troll, but can you point out any significant difference between oyster shell and calcitic lime? :confused_2:
     
    No big deal if you can source it locally, but a really big deal with $25-$30 shipping added on. :eek: CaCO3 is CaCO3.
     
    BTW, just rode by a shop that opened in July to make sure they were still in business, one we would both appreciate. "Home Brewing and Organic Gardening Supplies" says the sign over the shop. Will visit very soon. Been too broke to risk it before. Still broke, but at least have stuff to eat now. :smoke:
     
    Wet
     
  18. Thanks for sharing!
     
  19. Would I substitute oyster shell powder for the same proportions as I would lime in my soil?
     
  20. Reread GiMiK's post again.

    There is NO appreciable difference between oyster shell flour and calcitic lime, both being nearly pure Calcium Carbonate, CaCO3.

    The main difference, besides sounding cooler is, if you don't live close to the west coast you will have to have OSF shipped to your location at high cost.

    Just doesn't make a lot of sense to spend -4x as much for the same thing that is available locally. But, I guess you can find out through experience and expense.

    Yes, they are both applied at the same rate.

    Cd
     

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