The recent events in France have shown us once again the blatant hypocrisy of Western governments and the people of the West. The chaps who carried out the attacks in France are the very same type that Western leaders were doing everything in their power to arm and support in Syria and Libya. Libya is the perfect example of what happens when these freaks gain power and control, widespread slaughter of those who are of a different sect, colour or race. Libya today is in a far worse state than it was 5 years ago, same with Syria. Whilst Gaddafi was not perfect and Assad is far from perfect they are a hell of a lot better than what has and is replacing them. Why are al Qaeda and IS "freedom fighters" and "rebels" when they overthrow governments in the East and Africa ? In the West you can say or write what you want about Islam without fear of sanction but if you even think about insulting Judaism you are a criminal, an anti Semite, a pariah. Pure hypocrisy. Why is Judaism sacred and Islam is not ? Do we ever stop to think how this is interpreted in Islamic countries ? Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
If Gaddafi was a capitalist dictator instead of a socialist dictator, he'd still be alive and in power. Plus the United States much rather have Muslims extremists to fight in the Middle East because they make the perfect bad guys for perpetual war.
Judaism is sacred because they got it bad in WWII and so we must pity them for the rest of time! Islam is not sacred because they're brown and stink and shove bombs into cars and do bad things. Would you ever stop to think about the about the perception of the West to Islamic countries? Like dude think about it, this requires understanding. That is not the way of the self-centered, ego - minded, willfully ignorant populace. Change my views?? Fuck that, that's communism. I do hope however that enough whistle blowers, people in high positions of power, and a shifty, foiled false flag attack/plot will set off a spark. Something has to.
Hyprocrispy exists on both "sides" - but that's fundamentally more of the issue; the binary morale order that is pervasive in both ideologies. At the root of the discourse are social taboos, prevoking the binary morale order. The state of public discourse at a national level is unable to adequately adress these issues, forget the international diplomacy of any kind. Perfect storm of geo-political instability and limitations of the global ethnoscape. TL;DNR - We're fucked. The sky is falling.
Good article from Chomsky pointing out the hypocrisy of the West... http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/19/opinion/charlie-hebdo-noam-chomsky/# Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
Maybe you can relate the killings at Charlie Hebdo to Western hypocrisy but the truth is they did it because of their religion. Did hypocrisy drive those people insane enough to start beheading people who've done them absolutely no harm, killing children for watching a soccer match on TV, tossing gay people from high places, and strapping bombs on 10 year old girls? Face it, Islam is rotten to the core and has been since it's invention.
There are some inconsistencies with your post. No nation is arming Al Qaida and IS. Every nation involved in arming groups in war zones make it a rule not to arm these groups (when their extremism comes to the public eye). And the attackers in France were involved in the extremist movements. The wars in Libya and Syria did not start with the involvement of outside forces, it was internal bickering that set the fires. I do however agree with you that the west shouldn't involve themselves in these affairs and not arm any groups. Libya is still in turmoil because of the many different groups, each wanting their side to rule the nation. These groups don't recognize the results of the elections and that justifies further fighting. And Syria is in turmoil because of the classic Shia vs. Sunni conflict. Yemen is on the brink of civil war for the same reason, and that's why IS has been gaining so much support in Iraq. Not to mention the tensions in Lebanon between these two sects. To your next point. Nobody is proclaiming Al Qaeda or ISIS to be "freedom fighters". Everyone is in agreement that these are extremists that no nation wants any involvement with. I don't really understand what your point is? Unless you don't know what a freedom fighter is? You call the French hypocrites... well nobody is arguing with you about that. They are hypocrites, lol. However you're wrong to say that you can say whatever you want about Islam and go unpunished. This is far from the truth. France has always seemed a bit Islamophobic, at least to me, but in other parts of the west there are tons of occasions were people have been prosecuted for blatantly attacking Islam. It's all about context. The laws limiting freedom of speech are quite ambiguous. Jews and Judaism are absolutely not immune to criticism and attacks however. Especially not in France where antisemitism is widespread. You can attack Judaism or Islam and get away with it sometimes, and other times you'll get nailed for it. But once again it has to be a serious attack on the group, it's all about context. You're trying to make a point by emphasizing certain events over others. Charlie Hebdo however is not an example of attack against Islam. It's a satirical magazine that has been poking fun on all kinds of groups and religions for as long as they've been around.
Nobody does anything because of a "religion". They did it because they wanted to, because they were coerced and fooled into carrying out these acts, because they felt a sense of loyalty to their "beliefs". Very similar motivation that the silly young westerners have that join the various armies of the West. Islam is based primarily on the Koran, if you read the Koran you will see that it is very similar to the Bible - full of silly tales and half truths. Some people are easily led and fall for this shit hook line and sinker, all that is needed is someone to spin it to such a point that the sucker believes he has no choice but to pick up a gun and avenge the conceived wrong inflicted upon his brothers and kin. A shining example of this is the war mongering, blood thirsty frenzy that enveloped the US after 9/11 when every Tom and his dog wanted to sign up and go kill some terrorists to show em what Merica is made of. Islam is an easy excuse and motivation to grab onto by angry, disgruntled and frankly silly young men. It gives them a cause. The problem is not Islam, it is stupidity. Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
You have a very white washed view of what actually happened in Libya and what is still happening in Syria. Did you miss the bit where Obama, Cameron et all were chomping at the bit to arm the "freedom fighters" and "rebels" of Syria and Libya ? How about when NATO planes dropped bombs and arms in Libya to aid the animals who overthrew Gaddafi ? Anti semitism is not widespread in France or anywhere else in Europe, I live in Ireland and regularly travel throughout Europe and see or hear no evidence of this. The Israelis might want you to believe there is but it's propaganda. It is disgust at the actions of the Israeli state that is reviled in Europe and rightly so. Those bastards need to be called out for their actions. Sadly you cannot criticise Israel without the pathetic cries of anti Semite and Jew hater from Israel and their fanatical supporters . It is their defence mechanism and it is very effective. Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
You know, I don't disagree a lot of what you're saying, smokinp, but I also think you're omitting some significant facts. There was a lot of popular disapproval, anger, outrage which culminated in widespread protesting and demostrations in the west during the Invasion of Iraq in 2002 and 2003. I think you're largely on the right track, but when you use hyperbolic language and claim that "every Tom and his dog...", you're not being persuasive, but you're firmly establishing yourself as an opponent to those that disagree with aspects of your evaluative beliefs. The west is not necessarily the monolithic or static entity which is being portrayed in this thread. "The West" is a shorthand which refers to specific international governmental, financial bodies and organs of state government. This is not equivalent to the totality of social movements and discourse. I'm of the opinion that this is more fundamentally rooted in economic inequality; and if that's true, then the majority of the inhabitants of the west are not actually in a decision-making capacity. This is doubly true if you consider the role of fear in the risk society, and Western intervention as a result of fear.
You are right Sam, I am taking a very simplistic view of events post 9/11, I realize that a huge percentage of Americans and indeed the West opposed the invasions of Afghanistan and particularly Iraq. It frustrates and annoys me greatly that the very same people who are the biggest critics of Islam are nearly always those who support the Western Oilhad crusades. Hypocrites. Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
I also live in Europe. Born and raised in Scandinavia. If you feel I have a "white washed" view on the situation and it's origin then feel free to enlighten me. But I actively read the news from Europe, U.S, Middle East and the rest of the world. News and opinions from both the right and the left. For a long time I was very active in the comment section on Al Jazeera's English website. I believe in objective reporting, which is impossible to find unless you tune in to reporting from every ideological side. My point is that I'm not living in an information bubble. I don't believe what I want to believe and refuse to listen to anyone else. I'm not saying the west is right and everyone else is wrong either. If you feel my views are wrong then please do correct them. No, I'm well aware of the arming of rebels. But are you implying that the arming of rebels and the bombing of Libya started before the internal conflicts started? The organizing of rebel groups and attacks against the governments started before any outside intervention. I also made it clear in my previous post that I'm against western intervention in middle eastern affairs so don't poke at that. And yes, I do believe NATO had ulterior motives in the bombing of Libya. One thing I know for a fact is that Sweden remained in the war longer than intended to show off their fighter jets in hopes of selling more of them to other NATO members. Sweden, as you may know, is in a sort of fighter jet selling competition along side with the France, Brazil and the U.S. Maybe "widespread" isn't the best word to use so I'll give you that, but claiming that antisemitism is minimal or that Jews are immune to hate in Europe is just not true. There is a lot of antisemitism in Europe. And the idea that Israel has control over public opinion in Europe is one that is shared by a lot of people, mostly Muslims, but there is nothing to back that up with and is more wishful thinking than reality. I've heard this accusation many times before. Can't criticize Israel?? Once again that is not true. News outlets all over Europe heavily criticize Israel over bombings in Gaza, arrests in the West Bank and mostly the settlements in the West Bank. The criticism against Israel is more frequent out of leftist oriented news agencies than right wing ones, and as you know most of Europe is leftist. It wasn't too long ago that the Union officially recognized the state of Palestine, even with heavy protests from both Israel and the U.S. Western Europe tends to be more pro-Palestine. I'll admit I don't know much about Ireland, but from what I've understood it is a very conservative country. Conservative Europeans tend to be more pro-Israel and anti Muslim. Is it possible your entire view has been warped by the ideology of the country you live in? --- All in all you're saying that the west are hypocrites for arming rebels in the middle east but not tolerating attacks on its own soil. I'm saying that they're arming non-extremist (or at least trying to) groups and not arming ISIS and Al-Qaida. And the attacks against the west are not carried out by nationalist rebel groups but rather by Muslim extremists. You're saying that the west is hypocritical because slander against Islam is allowed but against Jews is unacceptable. I'm saying that how criticism towards Muslims and Jews is taken is based on context but that hate speech against Muslims is punishable by law (in western Europe) just as people are prosecuted for hate speech against Jews. But these laws are plagued by ambiguity so there are occasions when slander against both Jews and Muslims goes unpunished same with hate against Homosexuals and other minority groups. But claiming that you can't slander Jews but you're welcome to do so against Muslims is not true. And I feel this comes from the recent arrest of a French comedian for posting a rather innocent comment, Je Suis Charlie Coulibaly, right? Something that France has been criticized for around western Europe and called hypocrites for. So are your opinions based on reality or isolated incidents?
No religion is really scare expression wise. I have more guns then you have fingers along with a stockpile of rounds that has to been seen to believe but I dont blow you head off if you insult me. I would never consider it. Any religion that anyone follows that has followers that do that are wrong. Most Americans of most walks of life make fun jokingly of all religions. I've said jokes in the past on any of them. Its all in good fun. Its part of a humans inherent right of freedom of expression, speech whatever you wanna call it. If you doubt me watch Southpark. They make fun of Jews every epsiode have a black character called Token, and make fun of the mentality retarded. Its also a very popular show still after many years of being on.
Ireland has a near non-existent Jewish population to begin with..... The evidence seems to prove you have no facts to base your claims with... Anyone following the news clearly sees there is in fact far more intolerance towards Jews in Europe than other Western regions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe#By_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porte_de_Vincennes_hostage_crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Museum_of_Belgium_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_and_Montauban_shootings The only person claiming that criticizing Israel results in cries of racism is you. The main difference is that Jews won't go and shoot up journalists in response to silly cartoons.
As much as what you say may be true and come from a seemingly objective angle. You do not know. You were not there. All of what you read may well be as good as garbage, written by anyone. Hypocrisy is an extreme lacking of awareness. Is it not in our nature to see both sides, weigh out and balance actions...to let things slide as such is the very root of ego, and a source of many problems. Welp, that's sorta on the grander scale I suppose. Which view holds more merit: That which judges others or a group of any sort? That which judges self? According to _______?? That which knows no judgement? Shit this might be filosofee now lol
My opinions are very much based in fact and experience. The Irish would be one of the strongest supporters of the Palestinian people. We experienced a brutal occupation for 800 years and are well aware of what the Palestinians are enduring. IRA PLO ANC is a mantra I grew up with in the 70's and 80's and has shaped my beliefs and convictions. The West and in particular the US has a long ugly history of intervention and meddling in other countries affairs. When the US bombs the shit out of the Middle East it is in support of "democracy" and the "spreading of democracy", when the various targets resist the bombing and occupation that follows they are labeled as "terrorists". Obama, Cameron et all are up in arms and horrified when IS chop off the head of a hostage yet they remain silent while their pals in Saudi Arabia are flat out sharpening their swords on a near daily basis. I recommend you have a read of the article I posted earlier in this thread by Noam Chomsky (a much more credible and eloquent source than myself) for examples of the West's hypocrisy). I disagree with you regarding Islam and Judaism being treated equally. Criticism of Israel is now being labeled anti semitism by Cameron, the foolish French are now going to make it illegal to have Pro Palestinian rallies. If the Charlie mag had posted caricatures of Jews would they have avoided prosecution and censure by the French authorities ? Regarding Al Jazeera I gave up reading that Bahraini government propaganda rag a long time ago. , it is now on a par with Fox News IMO. I would be interested to hear your views on Israel. Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
No Israel jails cartoonists instead. http://www.mintpressnews.com/no-outrage-palestinian-cartoonist-arrested-jailed-israel/200692/ Sent from the back of a jihadist donkey...
I think the guys that started all this idiotic shit ought to be the ones to settle it. I want a celebrity death match between Mohammed, Moses, and Jesus... Get it on! Then gtf outta here and leave the rest of us alone!
Enough with the red herrings. Jews do not have a history of murdering those who insult Judaism. Promoting hate speech is clearly not the same as publishing satirical cartoons.