States of Matter

Discussion in 'Science and Nature' started by NorseMythology, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. I think we all know of Aristotles elements earth, water, air and fire. I am not the first to point this out, earth=solid, water=liquid, air=gas, fire=plasma. Then we have the quintessence, the 'fifth essence' which apparently the Greeks considered the aether/void, from which the other four are derived. Aptly or not, they directly relate with the now understood states of matter. Keep in mind, Faraday discovered plasma or 'radiant matter' in 1817, over two thousand years later. Then we come to quintessence, this too depicts what we now know as the zero-point energy quantum vacuum. From a preliminary investigation, this is almost identical notions were found in Buddhism, Hinduism, Japan and less convincingly China. I am not sure if this was shared or independantly derived. Also interesting to note, Plato attributed each Platonic solid with an element and the fifth with the universe (the dodecahedron), which is still considered a possible shape of the universe.

    And where is lightning? WE know lightning and fire are plasmas, but I dont see how they would have been able to distinguish that.
     
  2. The greeks got their ideas from elsewhere. As to the quintessence, perhaps paracelsus has something to impart on the matter. Lots of digging to do though.
     
  3. It seems only reasonable to conclude they somehow knew this or got it from someone who did. Next i am going to figure out if the other platonic solids relate to reality. I notice he prescribes fire/plasma to the tetrahedron/pyramid. I know pyramid means pyr=fire amid=in the middle but I am not sure how this relates to plasma. I welcome anyones knowledge on the matter. Plato also prescribed water/liquid with the icosahedron, solid/earth with the cube and air/gas with the octahedron.
     
  4. Who did they get it from?
     
  5.  
    I'm not entirely certain of what is the true source of the transmission, but the vedic texts seem the earliest to make reference to the five elements. There seems to have been a lot of cultural mixing from India to greece and even china dating back a far time. The greeks actually admitted much of their knowledge came from the egyptians and chaldeans. I have found the chaldean magis never seemed to put much emphasis on the elements as far as I can tell, but the knowledge on them is sparse I would say, mostly second hand/third hand accounts. I would think the source is vedic, but I feel like it's quite hard to pinpoint. The tantrik systems emerging from the roots of the vedic tradition place a lot of emphasis on the 5 elements, whereas, I've found less of an emphasis in other traditions.
     
  6. Actually, I believed the chaldeans only spoke of 4 elements, so the source must be vedic.
     
  7. #7 Sam_Spade, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
    Plato is the name of a planet!

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  8. Yay for philosophy!
     
  9. Ex-planet ;-)
     
  10. #11 NorseMythology, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
  11. Plasma is like the glue that holds the four elements together or tears them apart via "love" and "strife." 2 mechanisms for a single function: to live.
    We are, we are bacteria fighting eternal viruses in one point of time.
     

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