Enlightenment

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by yogisuba, Jan 2, 2015.

  1.  
    I agree for the most part. A state of ego-suspension sounds right to me. There is a real freeing that comes out of such an experience, and as you say, in certain moments of absorption, when one is focussed on some intense activity, something one loves, in the 'zone' so to speak, something else is there (or not there) as the thinking mind has become quiet.
     
    Yet we must go further. If such an experience gives insight into the enlightened state, if one can find a way into it without having to perform any activity at all, that must be closer to what we mean.
     
    The mind-less state creates a space in which we feel something within it. Not 'know' it, just be it, without needing to decide, having to comment, to label. If one jumps out of a plane (hopefully with parachute attached) for the first time, there is unlikely to be anything other than total focus in the moment as we do something that to the body seems like suicide. We become present in a way that feels very real, and can encourage repeated experiences as we want more of this.
     
    Meditation, drug-induced altered states, many things in fact, will put us into this state, and once there, we can choose to work with it to help us know ourselves more and more. You could say 'enlightenment' is the absence of that which leaves us feeling unenlightened.

     
  2. #42 esseff, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2015
     
    I did want to look at this when I first saw it but never did.
     
    Craving is a feeling that something is missing, it becomes a thought, an idea, that eventually needs to have its needs met.
     
    Anything that can take us over in that sense must be a lower energy state - for something to be missing, food, love, sex, whatever, we feel we are no longer complete within ourselves, and it is only by having this thing we crave for that we feel we will be, at least for a while anyway.
     
    Desire, and the ability to realise it, puts us into a state of future. The here and now is not good enough, and the craving is the physical manifestation of this.
     
     
    To deserve something gives us permission to have, to be, what we believe we ought to.
     
    You say 'fully opening and dedicating yourself to awakening'. Surely you are doing this just by questioning your actions, writing your posts, revealing yourself? Are you expecting more to have changed by now? Something ought to be in your life that isn't?
     
    Perhaps it is these things, these expectations or attempts you make at realisation that actually get in the way.
     
    You are attempting to become what you already are.
     
  3. #43 Account_Banned283, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
     
    Btw, Journey, I wasn't talking about you directly when I said ''you're'' - my point in the post above is that people seem to talk about ''Enlightenment'' as though it's a real thing, and yet cannot give a coherent explanation of what it is.. which implies that it's either something simple (''ego-suspension'') that's been mystified by vague language, or that it's something that's just ''presumed'' to exist without there being a reason to ''presume'' it's existence. I just thought I'd point that out, since the post quoted above seems kind of semi-confrontational now that I've read it back.
     
  4.  
    It may be that those who might be able to give you the kind of explanation you seek are unlikely to frequent a stoner forum, or have no need or inclination to reveal it.
     
    It may also be something that when one is, it isn't obvious that it is anything other than a normal way to be. It is the kind of lives we live that weigh us down, make us feel heavy, so that the idea of enlightenment seems an alien idea. Yet once we lighten up, let go of the heaviness, a state of enlightenment is just there anyway.
     
  5. Blessings Everyone,
     
    I agree esseff, the idea of becoming anything is interesting, to say the least, but, for no better word, it seems to work, as when we say, the seed became a tree. The tree was always there, it needed only the right conditions to become its fullest expression.
     
    As to what keeps me from it, you propose "An idea, an expectation, a feeling that you lack something? That there is more for you to be, more than you currently are?" Those all sound good to me.
     
    I learned long ago what you are saying about the journey being the destination, only, there is that lack of joyfulness that one would expect, and so, it makes me wonder – what is missing? Maybe it's the expectation that the moment has to be joyful, maybe that is what's tripping me up? I don't know.
     
    As to Account_Banned283, the question is not so much, can we experience Awake states, which I believe we have all had in moments of our life, the question is, how do we remain in that state, prolong it, abide within it, move from it, 2 B fully absorbed and identified with it, 2 B IT – whatever that it may be.
     
     
    And now, back to esseff. For one, thank you for your thoughtful responses. Your questions are very thought provoking and insightful. You are right, in the sense that my questions are an act towards fully opening and dedicating myself, but there is the attachments i am not willing to let go of, the desires that still pull at me, the fear hiding within, the anger and selfishness that keep popping up, the doubt chipping away at me, and so forth. I just have not reached that point where i feel all in.
     
    A lot of it is timing of course, but there is that resistance, that unwillingness to jump in, as if i'm slowly stepping into a cold swimming hole instead of just jumping in. That is one of the reasons why i started this series of meditations. By putting myself out there, it puts my feet to the fire, so to speak. In doing so, it creates a reflective pressure that invites more conscious effort on my part :D
     
    I really do want to be Awake, it is in fact, consuming more and more of my thoughts. While there is a driving force driving me towards those ideals of what i imagine Enlightenment to be, there is also a large force pressing within that wants to just B. A part of me that is tired of the yearnings and cravings, tired of running and fighting, tired of being discontent and imbalanced, tired of being controlled. Both of these forces are converging, strengthening my resolve. We'll see where it takes me.
     
  6.  
    You ARE awake, so I suspect much of this comes down to your definitions.
     
    If you are driving yourself towards what you imagine enlightenment to be, you are driving yourself up  a steep hill on a slippery road, with a torrent of water running down washing you back.
     
    You say you are tired of all the shit, well, this is why you're doing this. But what it says to me is that you are not beginning this process, you are near the end of it, although 'near' is of course a relative term.  :smoke:
     
  7. [SIZE=medium]Day Six[/SIZE]
     
    [SIZE=medium]Last night's meditation focused on the Tao Te Ching. I had full intention to read through the whole text, extracting the quintessential practices necessary to be in the Dao. [/SIZE]
     
    [SIZE=medium]I smoked some Herb, set the intentions, lit a candle and incense, and open the text. An hour passed and i had finally read the second chapter. Two hours after that i woke up from my nap. There was no way i was going to "just" read through the text. The first chapter alone should be at least a week's worth of meditations. [/SIZE]
     
    [SIZE=medium]Anyhow, between the lines is everything i gained from last night's meditation.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]____________________________________________________________[/SIZE]
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    [SIZE=medium]____________________________________________________________[/SIZE]
     
    [SIZE=medium]and that is actually more than i should say:)[/SIZE]
     
  8. I would say the Tao Te Ching is probably the closest to perfection any spiritual text comes. And I totally know what you mean about reading it. You go into it thinking you're going to read through it, but from the very get-go it is so deep, and rich in meaning. You can't just read through it. I love how almost every line is so packed with depth of meaning, and at the same time is immanently applicable. You can really immediately get into its application, and yet there is so much depth to it that it truly is an extremely significant spiritual task. Just one chapter, one line, is so ripe with applicable meaning and depth in that way.
     
  9. I don't know what to say but to concur with you. There are a few other texts that come close to perfection, but for all those texts, few of them are so concise and practical – much less, pocket size. Your passion inspires me. If i did not already have my studies set out before me, i would likely drop everything and get lost in the Dao De Ching. Have you looked into the Guodian bamboo slips: oldest found Dao De Ching to date?
     
    Anyhow, Be Blessed. Thanks for your passion – it's infectious :yay: 
     
  10. Day Seven
     
    Well, this was my planned end for this meditation series. I still have a few days of contemplating and researching this topic before getting back to my pranayamic studies. I want to thank everyone who offered guidance, insights, and support in this thread. It has truly helped me with my focus and given me encouragement and energy. Last night was about finding my way - this is what came:
    _____________________________________________
     
    Honest Inquiry
    Genuine Intention
    Clear Seeing
    Cultivating
    Dissolving or Extending Self
    Witnessing and Enjoying
    Letting Go and Sharing/Illuminating
     
  11. Yes, finding our way, so important.
     
    In a way there is no way, and yet we take one anyway.
    it might be this and then be that
    something learned
    comes from it
    will life have meaning
    will it be
    what we imagined?
    let it come for it must be
    what it is
     
  12. What are your expectations of enlightenment?

    Sent from my XT1032 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  13. Having expectations would only get in the way.
     
  14. I concur with esseff, "expectations would only get in the way." At the same time, intending for it while remaining open does seem to increase the odds of inviting it into our lives.
     
    I come from the school of thought that we should learn as much as we can on a topic with the intention of gaining understanding and experience regarding it. Like a black hole, we cannot see it directly but we can see its effects on the world around it.
     
    Likewise, we might not see what causes ripples on a pond, but we know something is going on to make them arise. Be that a rock thrown in the water, air currents on the surface, something moving under or on its surface, temperature differentials, and so forth.
     
    One of the greatest expectations that prevent us from seeing Enlightenment in our daily lives is the belief that somehow it is an ends, a goal, and finish line. What is it, I don't know. But I do know this, being fully aware and present has something to do with it and that is something truly worth seeking in life: if that leads to awakening, so much the better.
     
  15.  
    I am compiling my pithy poems and sayings from my Meditations on Enlightenment and this one came up:
     
    How do we let go of expectations when
    the very effort to let them go implies
    we expect them to go?
     
    Something's fishy about that :confused:
     
  16.  
    Indeed. It is a good point.
     
    Perhaps the way to look at it is this:
     
    You don't need to let go of what you haven't created in the first place.
     
  17. Lose yourself. Constantly defeat the comfort and the seeker of comfort. Want to know about real addiction? It's every pattern in our life that we become comfortable with. Doubt so pervasive that it burns the self. It burns association. Who are you? Hold onto anything and you've already stepped into a burning room, a drying well. Wants. So commandeering, so pervasive. They command us in the conscious moment, but in the unconscious too. One of those unconscious wants is the want of an identity. A distinct being and place of belonging. You want. You. You want a you before all else. There is no you. Wake up from the dream and you learn that the limitations aren't in this material world, but rather your feelings and how they effect you, how they lead you around by the nose.
     
    How intimately are we a part of this world? So intimate that we can't separate ourselves from it. Senses and sensations. We have infinite opportunity for them. Yet where does good and bad come in? Pleasure and pain? Strip away self and you're left with reality. Neither object nor subject, just what is. Fire doesn't burn, ice isn't cold. It is what it is, why see it from any position? There is experience from a place beyond limitation. Trying to understand who you are, you've probably already missed it. The place where there is no perturbation, that is your essence. An emptiness beyond qualities, and non-discerning. The essence cannot see good or bad, this or that. It simply is. Thatness, thisness, isness.
     
  18. "Ordinary people seem not to realize that those who really apply themselves in the right way to philosophy are directly and of their own accord preparing themselves for dying and death"
     
    Socrates
     
  19. #59 TheMixer, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
    I remember i used to be really, really depressed once.
    Then, one day i said "fuck all this depression shit"
    I went through an epiphany, an extended one that took time to finally fall into.

    I mediated for an hour plus, everyday for close to a year. I would start letting my thoughts flow, until i flooded myself with a truth.
    The natural neutrality that just is. This consciousness... and the perpetuation of positive and negative energy that we all intake and output.
    I became that which is in between. Not gas, not solid... but water. A flowing force. The now. And it's cycle.
    The awareness that i had the ability to conceptualize conceptualization and mold my reality as i see fit. To share as much love as i can, which is as limitless as the endless sky.
    I'm down to earth, and earth is in space. And space is... well, it just is. No need to force a belief of ridiculousness. No religion other than the love religion. Sharing nothing but positive energy, friend or enemy.
    I made a 180.
    Englightment, to me, is the process of experience. And knowing that the process of experience is enlightment.
     
  20. Blessings Pickledpie,
     
     
    Lose yourself
    Comfort – complacency
    Doubt
    Attachment
    Desires – wants – needs
    Identity
     
    These definitely seems to get in the way of things. One way i have come to understand the process of awakening to "thatness, thisness, isness" is to utilize either the Kabbalistic Tree of Life or the Kundalini Chakra System – the Chakra System being the easier or more accessible of the two.
     
    For instance, one way of working with the chakras is to see them as staging grounds, places from which we work with certain energies. One aspect of that is working through the blocks, issues, and other such unwanted things associated with that domain of our being. At each level we work with more rarefied states of energy.
     
    With the first chakra we deal with fear, core needs, ways in which we deal with life, and so forth; the second deals with desires, how we create, and such; the third with anger, control, personal power, etc; fourth with love and sadness, connection, balance; fifth with expression, creation, shame, and so forth; sixth with understandings, perceptions, doubt, delusions, et al; and the seventh gives rise to the attachment to self.
     
    Granted, this is an extremely simplified way of working with the Chakra System, but the gist of it fits in with what you were saying in not separating ourselves from the world, cause we cannot, but rather, we investigate the many opportunities and experiences to be had through the experience of being. Each stage, for no better word, for there really are no stages in truth, but even so, each stage appears to be a closer experience of "thisness and thatness." Ultimately leading up to the seventh chakra where we let go of the self and experience Pure Being, as it is…
     
    Be Blessed
    Suba
     

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