Should I chop now or flush?

To me, organically means creating a health living soil which should be able to take your plants from seed to harvest with little more than water. Look at the Easy Soil Mix for Beginners thread. It's a long one but there's a ton of good information in it.
http://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1116550-Easy-Organic-Soil-Mix-for-Beginners

This is another good thread.

http://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/650139-Organic-Higher-Learning-&-Resources

 

I didn't write this but agree with it 100%


Here goes....



Chlorophyll b is the 'type' found in plants as we're defining it. Other structures are found in algae, cyanobacteria, et al.



Here is the molecular formula - C55H70O6N4Mg so we're looking at 55 Carbon ions, 70 Hydrogen ions, 6 Oxygen ions, 4 Nitrogen ions and 1 Magnesium ion. All 6 forms of chlorophyll have one consistent dynamic, i.e. a single Magnesium ion. Not two, not three - one. So much for the mythology about magnesium-hungry plants or worse in the wacky weed world where specific 'strains' can be magnesium-hungry. Looking at just chlorophyll b a better myth would be carbon-hungry or hydrogen-hungry and maybe even oxygen-hungry and nothing to do with magnesium.



My understanding of this worst example of stoner science is that by dumping copious amounts of water somehow water with it's simple H2O formula is able to reach up from the root zone then into a plant's vascular system and deconstruct a fairly complex molecule - that must be some really unique water indeed!



In a dynamic called translocation plants can and do move materials from leaves to other tissues - that is established botany. Plants produce carbohydrates (sugars) in the leaves by photosynthesis but non-photysynthetic parts of the plant also require carbohydrates and other organic and nonorganic materials. It's for this reason that nutrients are translocated from sources (regions of excess carbohydrates, primarily matures leaves) to what are called sinks. 



​Some important sinks are roots, flowers, fruits, stems and developing leaves. Leaves are particularly interesting in the translocation process because they are sinks when they are young and become sources later when they are about half-grown.



Carbohydrates are simple Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules, i.e. simple sugars.



So let's say for sake of silliness that flushing can trigger translocation which must be a real threat for rice plants, where are the chlorophyll ions going? They can't be destroyed because they're elements which cannot be destroyed or changed unless of course we're talking about cannabis which has special properties that negate almost every law of botany, biology, chemistry, physics imaginable.



My simple question is this: once this special water deconstructs the chlorophyll compound where do the ions go? Into thin air? That would be difficult since Magnesium is a metallic element but again we have to suspend even common sense to shore-up the flushing argument so who knows? Perhaps a special air canopy is created from flushing which can move magnesium around at will.



Even if water could deconstruct and force translocation of elements doesn't that defeat the purpose in the first place which is claimed that flushing will remove the nasties causing us to not have dank! If the mature leaves are the repository the why would you want to move these ions to the buds which you plan on consuming?



It's difficult to write this stuff without falling out of my chair with laughter. The argument fails on every level - even common sense.



Fire away! I'm wearing stainless-steel Fruit of the Loom briefs - I can take it!


http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1341205-solar-spec-1040-white-led-vs-mars-ii-2100.html#entry20859361

 

 
LOL I love your attitude man - 
 
So will anything in particular encourage senescence in cannabis?  Does this come down to the amount of photosynthesis that's occurring in the plant itself?  What would one do if they're nearing the end of flowering in an organic soil, and they aren't seeing that "fade" one typically would see at the end of the life cycle?  Basically what I'm trying to figure out is what the key to harvesting clean smoke is here... compared to something that burns with black ash and tastes nasty
 
The pic here is in week 9 of flowering, still has yet to fade.  I'm still waiting to chop her, even though trichomes are cloudy already and buds are filled in completely.  Any advice?  Thanks man

 

The biggest thing there is properly drying and curing. Black ash is a sign of too much moisture trapped in the plant material, in my opinion. That is based on the facts that:

A. I've only grown organically (No nutes ever)
B. Whenever I've had any leave black ash, it was either dried quickly for a sample, or had not been cured properly. (I'm still a noob.)
C. Said sample buds would leave grey ash after a good cure.

What sort of smoke do you want? "Up" or "Couch lock"? The more amber trichomes you have the more of a body stone you get. Most look for about 10% amber.

I also look at the pistils. (The hairs) They will be mostly brown and receding as the plant reaches maturity. Well, they will be unless you kick your plants into new growth like I did by overusing aloe vera juice.

 

I would say use that maybe once every two weeks up until you start flowering. It is potent stuff. I made the mistake of doing too much too late and had serious foxtail issues.

I've done both. But only regs with the coconut/aloe. Watering is not so much a scheduled thing for me. I use SIP's and judge when to water based on weight of the pot and the condition off the plant.

 

 
Maybe I'm cautious because I've harvested before (and cured) with some really unpleasant tastes in my herb still.  I was told it was due to an excess of Nitrogen, so now I'm scared to chop before the green leaves fade and complete senescence.  This happened with a TGA Subcool soil mix (probably why) and I haven't used that shit since, so maybe I'll be ok to chop the plants that are still green like the one shown above.
 
What do you think?
 
 
Do you wait for the fade to come or do you chop regardless?

 

I worry about the buds, not the leaves.

 

Well I grew one plant out doors, in a 5 gal bucket sitting on top of a 35g trash can filled with soil. The roots grew to the very bottom of the 35gal trash can. The flowers looked done, trics ambered up... The plant itself still looked young with very little yellowing or die off. I've seen the same from outdoor in ground growing.

I'm no expert but the way I see it is, if the plant has nutrients the whole time, it doesn't eat itself. Don't know if that's good or bad, but I'm thinking a happy healthy not dieing plant would make bigger, better flowers.


http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1341205-solar-spec-1040-white-led-vs-mars-ii-2100.html#entry20859361

 

 
ahhh I see, and you didn't notice any bad tastes from that plant?  When leaves are green I feel like there's still Nitrogen sticking around that wasn't transported out of the flowers and into the root zone.  This is anecdotal for me because I haven't actually looked into it but a few growers have told me that senescence should naturally occur in flowering plants, thus transporting mobile nutrients from the flowers and into the root zone; ensuring clean and good tasting smoke.  Correct me if I'm wrong!

 

Flushing is a bit overrated...it is something one can do to be a perfectionist and it can make your bud smoke sweeter...but, its not necessary.

 

Here's the thing. As DDP posted the flowers are sinks. In other words they take nutrients from other parts of the plant, they are, after all, the whole purpose of it living. You can flush all you want and I don't see how it would remove anything from the buds. But that's just me.

But you'll get the same thing from most organic growers. No need to flush. Flushing came about when people stated using bottled nutes and "boosters" and growing hydroponicly. No telling how that messes up how the plant operates. I look at it this way, there isn't a little guy in nature that runs around flushing plants, so why should I.

 

 
Well said man.  
 
And like I said, I've an organic run come out tasting really bad (first run) and was told it was N build up... now I still don't know the factors behind this or honestly fully understand it yet.. but I can now see how the conventional way of growing this plant has brainwashed so many growers - even after they've been strictly organic for a few years.  
 
I would never flush soil again though, unless I went back to bottles and that will never happen again lol

 

The growers that told you that are completely wrong on above ground biomass to plant root transrelocation of minerals. Photosynthesis is the engine that promotes growth. The only thing that is transrelocated back to the roots is photosynthate, i.e. "sugars", which is a byproduct of photosynthesis. That's it. Otherwise the flow of the growth process is from the below ground biomass to the above ground biomass for photosynthesis.
 
The other poster(s) suggesting proper drying and curing techniques will go a very long way to ensuring a clean burning and smooth smoke. Trying to dry cannabis too rapidly does not allow for proper degradation of sugars in the plant material and those "sugars" are among the top reasons that cannabis smoke can be harsh, turns ash black, and won't stay lit. Not saying added synthetic ions from synthetic fertilizers aren't a contributing factor to harsh or poor quality smoke, just saying that even 100% organically grown cannabis will most likely be inferior if it is not dried properly.
 
Naturally occurring senescence might be a good thing... BUT, from a growing plants perspective when does the chlorophyll manager (you) know when 'its about time to senescence' and thus make a decision to withhold some mineral that the plant needs to continue growth to maturity? Let it grow healthy until the fruit is at its maximum ripeness and then harvest!
 

 

Thank you for clarifying that!  That makes more sense now, I'll be sure to try and raise humidity levels in this dry ass apartment lol.  They're at like 20% (as they are every winter) so I'm hurtin.  I just hang plants as a whole to try and slow the entire process down, I've found a humidifier doesn't do much of a difference unfortunately.  
 
Well said, flushing is a very hydro-produced mind set man.  Have you ever heard of excess Nitrogen sticking around in soil though?  

 

Your N question has two parts I think. Part one relates to open field agriculture and part two relates to container gardening. I don't want to get deep into agriculture but I will say this; N is not sequestered easily in the soil. It is very prone to leaching and 'gassing off' (NH2 and NH4). 
 
The same basic principal applies to container gardening and esp so if irrigation is such that leaching is a standard practice. Depending on soil CEC  and the ionic form of N in question N leaching is easily accomplished with excess watering. Of all the range of amendments organic gardeners use there is generally plenty of N source but it does require the nitrogen-cycle be completed by soil life so that it becomes available for plant use. At the end of the discussion a plant can only take N in through the roots in three ionic forms; NH2 (urea) NH4 (ammonium), or NH3 (nitrate).
 
So, is there N left in soil following harvest? Hopefully so! We O-types recycle and a penny saved is a penny earned, Manage the pennies and they add up to $'s.
 
Just saying, is it wrong to have non-soluble N remaining in our soil mixes? 
 
Clear as mud lol?

 

Think about nature, you know where plants grow really big when left all alone. Plant grows, makes seeds, drops seeds, next year new plants grow. Where did the nitrogen come from for the second season?
Also consider does nitrogen disappear from soil once the plant starts to flower? While we are thinking about nature... Ever notice how much more vegetation growth there is near a river? Where the soil has a constant and steady source of water... It doesn't get water every 4 days then dry out, water, dry out... It's steady and dependable... Hmm makes you question a lot you read here, is it true or stoner science?


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So basically what you're saying is there is no such thing as N residing in your finished product?  And harshness is due to improper curing/drying?  Just so we're clear