New to Hydro...I cry at night

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by Herbanwarfare, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Ok So I've been a soil guy for about 4-5 years now and have had a lot of success.  I've just recently thought I'd challenge myself and give hydro a try.  So far I've had nothing but trouble...  I've done everything by the book at least so I thought.  I'm hoping some of you can give me a bit of insight as to what I'm either over looking or forgetting about.  My girls aren't looking so good and I'd really appreciate the help.
     
    My set up:  Top feed hydro, Advanced Nutrients Grow, Micro, Bloom and Cal-magic.  20 gallon res only I keep it filled with only 10 gal.  I've also been using my well water.  I've checked the ppm's and it was around 100-130ppm.  Res temp is 68 degree F. 3 air stones running 24/7.  T5 lights.  Room temp 75-80 degree F.  PH stays between 5.6-6.1
    They are on a timer that feeds them 3 times a day for 15 min interval.
     
    Everything seems like its perfect only my girls have developed some deficiencies and I also cant seem to keep my ppm's in the correct range for their stage of growth.  I'll set them at 200-300 ppms and by the next day they'll jump to 1200 plus!
     
    I've tried emptying the res and then refilling it with fresh water and starting the nutes at a very low rate and yet the same thing continues to happen and my girls are suffering because of it =(
     
    My questions are:
    Do you think its the well water?  RO/Distilled water instead?
    How should I correct the deficiencies?
    Is my feeding schedule ok?
    Should I try and wiggle them out of the hydroton and transplant into something I'm more familiar with like soil?  Chances of survival? 
     
    Thanks guys 
     
     
     
     

     

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  2. #2 holyreefer, Dec 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2014
    Don't get too worried if you had success in dirt hydro isn't much harder it's the same concept of growing but your concerns for the girls shift

    A couple of things your well water is already at 130ish without Calmag which means you have a lot of junk on your water. Your water is hard like my well water. Since I switched over to a RO/Di unit I've had no more major deficiency issues. My water comes out at 3ppm and I use the cal/mg to drive it up to 150ish before adding any nutes.

    If your ppms are jumping that high you probably should slow down on the nutes I only use nitrogen & cal/mg during my veggie and all else during flowering

    Don't move you'll only mess with the roots structure which doesn't like to be messed with
    Do you check your ph daily?
    If you don't check it daily and keep it in range your girls won't respond to what's being provided by their feedings

    I think your feeding schedule is fine you are only feeding them while the lights are on correct? If not it will create root rot which will make your girls respond terribly


    Based upon your pics for me I would have given the girls a boost of maybe 200ppm

    So 150 of cal/mg
    The rest all big grow (nitrogen) 50ppms
    And worked my way up from there
     
  3. I'm only worried because I've read problems in hydro can move a lot faster then issues developing in soil.  I just want to ruin my grow!
     
    Ok So I'll try the RO water and see where that gets me.  I really though I was slowing down on the nutes.  I would start them at 200-300 ppm and then the next day my meter would show triple of what I first put in.  Thats without me adding anything.  I also check the PH once in the morning and once again at night a few hours before its lights out.  Ok I'll leave the feeding schedule the same and yes I'm only feeding with lights on.  The last feed turns on at 8pm and my lights go out at 10pm.
     
    I'll leave them for now and see if your advice gets them back to health.  Thanks for the help bud...pun intended 
     
  4. #5 GoldGrower, Dec 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2014
    Your plants look overdosed. Your ppm being 300 is about right. The fact that it is going up to 1200 is your problem. I have no idea how this is possible. It's getting dissolved solids from somewhere. Hddani asks a good question, did you clean your clay balls? 
     
    Usually if your ppm rises it means the plants are taking up a solution that is more diluted than what is in the reservoir causing the remaining solution to become stronger. But it's going up too much for it to be that.
     
    Your well water being at 150 is perfectly fine and shouldn't warrant any reverse osmosis. If there is a problem with it, it's not from the ppm being too high, it would have to be what is actually dissolved. But if there's something poisonous in the water it would have made itself known when using it with your soil grows 
     
    Could your ppm meter be faulty? 
     
  5. Good questions!  
     
    Yes, I washed everything out before I put it together.  I used boiling water to clean the hydroton.  I also cleaned the buckets and res with a mild bleach spray and rag.  
     
    I actually have plants in soil right next to the hydro and they seem to be thriving.  I doubt there's anything poisonous in my water but I'm also thinking the soil is acting as a buffer maybe and thats why I'm not having any issues.  I've been told hydro is pretty sensitive.
     
    I'll try the distilled water since its cheap and if it works then it'll be worth it.
     
    I'm kinda wondering that my self.  My meter might be broken or giving me false readings.  I'll look on amazon to see if I can find a cheap replacement.  The holidays got me broke so nothing fancy =(
     
    Thanks for all the help! 
     
  6. #7 holyreefer, Dec 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2014
    Did you throughly rinse out your buckets?
    +1 on meter
     
  7. Yea I hosed them down pretty good and dried them with a clean towel.
     
    I went and picked up some RO water and a package with some hydro guard I ordered came in as well.
    I've already drained the res, wiped it down and cleaned it out, refilled with RO water, added only some cal-magic, grow nutes and the hydro guard.  My ppm's come out to 260 and my ph is down to 5.7.  I hope all the adjustments will make a difference.  How long until I'll see anything change? 
     
    Thanks!
     
  8. Keep your attention on new growth.

    I had that same issue on my leaves last run. My ph meter was off its calibration by a whole point.

    You'll want to let your ph ride from 5.8 to 6.2

    Easiest way to mess your plants up is with a ph that's out of whack. You'll overdose nutes trying to fix lockouts and cause even more issues.

    The top feed may be washing left over salts back into your soup. Not sure.
     
  9. My PH meter seems to be working fine.  I have some calibration solution handy and recently checked it.  My TDS meter might be whats out of whack but it did seem to give me the correct ppms for the amount of nutrients I added to the RO water.  I'm running it at 260-280 ppms of just Grow and Cal-magic.  
     
    How would one know if its from the top feed/salts?  Also what would be a solution to that?  Just rinse with Un-nuted RO water?
     
  10. You can get an EC/ppm meter for about £5. I would buy a new one just in case your current one is faulty.
     
    Check once per day to see if the figure goes up or down and adjust accordingly. But if it jumps up to over 1000ppm again within 24 hours there is something seriously wrong. I don't understand where it's getting the extra solids from. Have the clay balls been used previously ? 
     
  11. I will be picking up a new meter soon since they're a lot cheaper then I remember.

    I check everything at least twice a day. Everything being temp, pH, ppms and just the plants in general. I checked last night and sure enough the ppms went from 280 to 1400! I have no clue what's cause this big of a jump. The plants are looking worse then before. I hadn't used the hydroton before but I did clean them with boiling water before using them.

    I'm so confused haha
     
  12. #13 GoldGrower, Dec 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2014
    Boiling the water is unnecessary, but you should rinse them thoroughly. When I opened my first bag I spent a long time rinsing them out. Does your clay balls change the colour of the water? Mine made the water red until they were rinsed off. But then the dust shouldn't dissolve anyway so It shouldn't change your ppm. 
     
    I honestly have no idea what could be causing the ppm to rise that amount. What nutes are you using? Are you thoroughly mixing them before measuring? 
     
  13. I figured the boiling was over kill but wanted to just make sure any bacteria was killed off and after the hot bath they were sprayed with a hose. They haven't changed my water color since they've been washed.

    I'm using hydroguard, advanced nutrients grow, micro, bloom, and cal magic. I shake the bottle for a good minute then measure it out and pour it in. I stir it up with a big plastic spoon. I wait 5-10 min then check ppm levels.

    I have no clue either. I might just stick with soil until I can find a solution :/
     
  14. Like everyone else on here has said, I would try the r/o, or distilled water.  You can buy jugs of distilled at the grocery store or buy an r/o system.  Make sure you check the label when buying from the store to make sure it says it has been filtered r/o style.  
     
    Well water could definitely have some additional dissolved solids that are either throwing your ppm off, or are preventing your girls from properly up taking N, P, and K.  High levels of certain metals, as well as they can bind up nutrients, or lock up root intake.   You could take a sample of your water to a local university extension office to find out exactly what is in it.
     
    Otherwise check on amazon for ppm and ph meters.  I got one of each for about fifteen us dollars a piece.  They do the trick.
     
    Good luck
     
  15. I did try the RO water and still my ppms would start off fine then explode up ward and be in 1500 range. I've ordered A new pH and ppm meter from amazon but I also transplanted the plants from the hydro set up to soil lol. I have no clue how much stress that'll be on them but Ive been having success with soil for a while now and felt I'd have better luck healing them and getting control over the ppm issues.
    I think I need to re-fuckulate my hydro system, deep clean my hydroton, stock up on RO water or buy a RO system for my house, and then keep reading and learning.
     
  16. After this next crop, I'll go back to the hydro and give it another shot.

    Thank you all for the help!
     
  17. Are you able to run the hydro system again, exactly how you had it before but without the plants? Check to see if the ppm still rises? And then run it again with just your water and no added anything and see if it rises then? This issue will need to be sorted before you try hydro again otherwise you will just get the same issue.
     
    What is hydro guard? 
     
  18. Yea I left everything set up and had the same idea. I want to run it without plants and see if it was my water, the nutes, or my meters etc..

    I might try doing dwc instead of the top feed since there could have been salt build up on the tops of the plants that was getting rinsed down and causing the ppm madness. Either way I got work to do!

    The plants did take to the soil nicely and don't seem too stressed. I'll know in a few days if I see new growth.

    Hydroguard is a beneficial bacteria product for hydro set ups made by Botanicare.
     
  19. #20 kushlatte, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2014
    You need to do a 2 day plain pH'd water flush. Just feed the plant nothing but water right now. Even the little nutes you are giving it now aren't helping it too much because it's already sick and is just trying not to die. It's not really focusing on growth right now. Because it's so small and young it's just having a super hard time bouncing back if it's having to deal with raising PPM levels. With your PPM jumping to 1200 all the time it's just not gonna be able to take that after a while and quit or underproduce.
    Just feed it nothing but plain water, I would highly suggest some compost tea from your local hydro store and add that in after the first day of plain water. Let the plant drink only that for one or two more days until you start seeing some green, then you can add nutes back in at 1/2 strength that you were doing before. Supplement the other half of the mix with the compost tea (it doesn't raise your PPM much) After a week your plant will be strong enough to uptake nutes again. Also check your pH meter, I suspect lockout as well.
    I had this same problem with my first hydro run and once I let the plant just rest and drink plain water and tea for a couple days, everything was back on track. Your plants are so young, they are babies, let them recuperate. They will have plenty of time to go nute crazy later when they are strong.
     

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