Are you free to just let it die? If not, why can you end the life before birth but not after? I am really trying to understand your view. I may not be in agreement, but at least i will have an understanding.
The neural circuits responsible for conscious awareness don't develop until 26-30 weeks, so before that, it is possible to argue that it is not yet a sentient being, but still a part of the mother. the only place we cannot agree on when its life correct? I think this is the fundamental disagreement between pro-choicers and pro-lifers and science gives a variety of answers.
Once it is born, it is already a sentient human being and as a parent, you have a natural responsibility to take care of it. If you end it's life after birth, then it is in fact murder.
Letting it die after it is born isn't the same as aborting it.. That's the whole point, subjectively.. you see it as a human from the beginning. Other people don't. The line is different for everyone, but for me it is when it's brain becomes active. Until then, while it might be human.. it is on par with a plant in terms of consciousness. Before the brain becomes active is the most humane time to take an action if you're going to.. if you know you're not going to want to keep it, get rid of it sooner than later. Think of it like this.. pro life typically says it is more humane to let it live.. and pro choice typically says it's more humane to abort it before it becomes an actual person if it is unwanted. That's how I see it.. just like gardening, if you spot a plant growing where you don't want it to.. you pull it before it becomes a problem and plant when the time is right. If you're going to end it's life, do so before it becomes a human being.. that way you don't end up throwing it in a dumpster or driving the car with them in it into the lake or leave it out in the wild to be eaten alive, feeling pain and sorrow. Much much more humane to end it before it is even able to feel pain, sorrow.. and in reality, experience dying. While anything alive can die, without a brain you can't really experience it.. and the brain isn't active during the first 20ish weeks.
Saying a fetus is different than a newborn is like saying a toddler is different then a teenager Its not subjective. They are all human by definition. Just at different stages of development. Its science. Period If it is subjective as you say, then you really have no right to tell someone not to abandon their newborn or abort an 8th month old baby. Fact is its subjective. You said it yourself. Until you decide its not. At x point in development -yuri
Honestly.. this is confusing. You say its not subjective.. then you say that its a fact that its subjective. You're going to have to clarify that.. As for it being science.. this is a philosophical discussion. If you're going to drag science into it.. then you're going to have to actually apply it. Science doesn't say a damn thing.. individual scientists do, and even they don't agree. There are scientists that say life begins at conception.. there are scientists that say it begins when they brain activates.. and there are probably scientists that say it begins at birth or some other stage during pregnancy. If you continue to day that it is science, then actually use science to back up your words. Provide some scientific articles that state the objective definition of what it means to be human, to be alive.. or just leave science out of it. And you are correct, that they are all stages of human development.. but those stages are different. To me, the human embryonic and fetus stages are equivalent to a human plant.. cause they have no more consciousness than a plant does.. and if you need, I can actually provide you with plenty of scientific literature that states consciousness comes from the brain and that the brain isn't active during the first 20 weeks.. but that should be knowledge you already know, being so fond of science and all. During the human "plant" stage, there is no harm in pulling it when it is unwanted. An unwanted plant is a weed.. and weeds get pulled. Once it develops a human brain, then it is not ok to harm them.. that's my line, the brain. In fact, I don't like the idea of needlessly harming any life that has a brain. Outside the internet I'm am actually overly kind to anything with a brain, insects included.. but without a brain, there is nothing to feel. Now if for some miraculous reason we discover that a teeny tiny human brain instantly appears at the moment of conception.. then I wouldn't be ok with abortion. It doesn't, so I am pro choice.. up until the point where the brain becomes active.
I'm pretty sure that I've never said that it is subjective until its not.. and even more sure that I've been saying that it is completely subjective the entire time.
... it's not suddenly. And it's not because *I* say they aren't people. It's because they aren't. And they don't get the right to live off of my body against my will. Yes, people of color don't require the use of white people's bodies. Because they're people. And fetuses aren't. So, when the pregnancy kills the woman, we should totes put the fetus in juvie, yeah? Oh wait, you can't, because fetuses aren't people.
except you are in favor of abortion being illegal after it is "sentient" How can you say its subjective then tell people not to abandon 2 year olds? According to you its all subjective really. The only reason you can't kill a 2 year old is because the majority said its wrong. Not because it actually is wrong. Are you a collectivist? -yuri
Remember how you said it was a fallacy to ask pro life people who they don't save starving children? I mean, you say everything is a fallacy so you might not remember.. but you did. Yet.. you continue to bring in unrelated stuff yourself. Abortion is not the same as abandoning your child.. trollol, that is a fallacy. Abortion is the same thing as.. well.. abortion. Now, the fact that it is entirely subjective means that I can say that it is ok to abort a fetus that doesn't even have an active brain.. and not ok with abandoning a 2 year old child with a working brain. I am starting to think that the concept of subjective escapes you.. but it's such an easy thing to grasp. Because it is completely subjective, you can say that it's not ok to abort after the moment of conception.. and that I can say it's not ok to abort after the brain forms and becomes active. Make sense? You have your subjective view point, I have mine.. the only difference is that I am not trying to tell people my subjective belief is an objective truth.
The "father" should have been aware of the consequences of unplanned pregnancy. You guys act like women get pregnant just to take your paycheck. If you want to have sex there are consequences both genders have to deal with. ✌ï¸
A two year old is a living breathing being, not a clump of cells safely inhabited by a uterus. They are not a worthy comparison. And plenty of people kill two year olds, because they're ALIVE. You cannot compare the murder of a living breathing child to an unborn, unviable fetus simply because you want to support your own argument. ✌ï¸
I think its stupid whenver people rely on abortions. Some real trash uses it as birth control it seems.. However some people shouldnt have kids.... so Pro choice i guess for very EARLY term.
Its still subjective Are you claiming objective morality? Are you saying its wrong to kill a child? -yuri
Right unless your a woman. You don't have yo deal with consequence . Woman can just abort. Men can't opt out. If you take away the mans rights to the child you take away your right to his support. Period -yuri