Hello All, I'm really new to the forums so I appologize in advance if I mistakingly break ettiquite, but I have a question that I've been trying to research with little success. A little about me: I'm a hydro guy that "saw the light" so to speak. There is nothing natural about gardening with chelated fertilizers, and though the quantity might be increased, the quality is decreased. It's the same principle that a home-grown tomato, grown the old fashioned way, tastes ten times better than one purchased from the store. I want to apply this same principle to my gardening. The problem is that I read a lot of conflicting things on a lot of different forums, and so I have a hard time sifting through the good advice and the bad advice. One such topic is the use of composted steer manure as a soil amendment. I read one post from a gentleman who claimed to have superior results using composted steer manure than any other single additive in an experiment that he supposedly performed. I have heard others who advocate using it, but for every one I see ten people swear that it should NEVER be used for our crops. A common claim is that it is too hot, but many of those people go on to advocate the use of blood meal, which has much higher levels of readily-available nitrogen. Manure is used as a soil ammendment for many types of crops, so why is it different for this one? Now I know the obvious, such as not planting directly into manure, or using it to ammend soils for small plants and seedlings, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a transplant mix. What are your thoughts, and what led you to draw those conclusions?
I would think that if it has been properly composted, it shouldn't be too hot. And since you should be mixing that with peat, EWC and some form of aeration plus other amendments then letting it cycle a bit it should be fine. I'd try it. Sent from somewhere over there. No, not there...over THERE.
Hey man, here's the gig: Creating a quality soil is the key to our success. The biggest factor in creating this 'quality' soil is the compost/ewc/humus component. Steer manure is a waste product from animals that are treated very poorly. Think about the conditions on a feedlot. Hit up 'steer manure salts' on google scholar. Now let's think about someone who owns a few horses. Horses that they love. Whose sh*t do you want in your garden??
Rancho, I totally get what you are saying about both the salt and the horse manure. I know a couple of OG's that swear by composted race horse manure. I have no doubt that the quality is much better than steer manure, but it is much more difficult for me to source. In regards to the conditions that the animals are subjected to, it is my understanding that blood meal and bone meal are both byproducts of the same industry, and are some of the most common amendments advocated on the forums. My thought is that the salt content of blood meal would have to be pretty high, as the salt content of blood is rather high, and should contain much of the same "garbage" (antibiotics, etc.) as steer manure. Is there any way to leach the salt (and possibly other impurities) out of the manure without reducing the nutrient content? Your help is very much appreciated!
Sorry man, I don't think you're following me but that's okay. Here's what you need to know: don't buy bagged steer manure or mushroom compost and use it for your humus component. Just don't. I know it's sitting there at home depot next to the peat moss...leave it there. Blood and Bone meal are not used by many of the folks on here. Here's something close to what I use and close to ole CC's mix. 50% peat moss 25% ewc/vermicompost/compost 25% aeration - lava rock, pumice, perlite etc. 1/2 cup each per cu. ft. oyster shell, crab shell, neem meal, kelp meal 2 cups rock dust per cu. ft. Most of these items should be found at Home depot/ Lowes or your local Ag/Feed store. Even Ace hardware has some amendments. Neem is tough. I've substituted alfalfa for it w/ good results for a long time. Let us know and we'll help you out. What region are you In? Here's a list of good composts to use Oly Mtn Fish Compost, Coast of Maine, Buffaloam, Bu's Blend...someone will chime in and help ya out I'm sure. RD Edit: Just remembered there's a really good Turkey compost down in SoCal somewhere can't remember the name though.
"a hydro guy that "saw the light" so to speak. There is nothing natural about gardening with chelated fertilizers, and though the quantity might be increased, the quality is decreased. It's the same principle that a home-grown tomato, grown the old fashioned way, tastes ten times better than one purchased from the store." Congratulations on "seeing the light". Most of us here started the very same way and I consider us lucky because most hydro guys simply will never see the same light. Welcome to the forum. You'll find what you're looking for right here at GCO. J
Rancho, I live on the 45th parellel, left coast area. About half the problem has been that I don't know anyone in the organic community out here to help me source things. I know they are here, it's just going to take some time to find them, I'm just trying to get some soil mixed so that I can get something going in the mean time. I talked to one of the guys who helped me get started in hydro, and after he finished naysaying, he did give me some valuable information: oyster shell is sold at the local feed store. It's used for chicken feed. I don't know why it never occured to me to check there, but they sell a lot of "meal" products that can be used as soil amendments without having to break the bank. Thank you for your help!
@ witch'- Try posting here for local organic soil amendments/community... http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1277064-sourcing-organic-soil-mix-components.html On a side note, the oyster shell from feed stores is NOT what you want to add to your soil mix, as far as adding "oyster shell" is concerned. It's nowhere near ground fine enough to be effective in a potting mix. You want "flour", not "grit".
Hey Wak, I've never had to do it, but don't some guys take the feed store oyster shell and hit it w/ a coffee grinder? I could be confusing this w/ something else
RD, the problem is that it's like running rocks through the coffee grinder. It'll work - for a minute or two... Also, for some reason I'm thinking that these oyster shell chunks are different than the material pulled out of the San Fran Bay. Coot? J
Calcium carbonate is calcium carbonate (limestone). It's "hardness" or "density" rivals that of granite... http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/density-solids-d_1265.html The SFB oysters are REALLY small. Like your fingernail. It makes them much, much more easy to grind into flour, compared to your "typical" oyster shell which is crushed for chicken grit.
Right on. Well, that must be a bummer for some people. I get the Pacific Pearl stuff myself. I always see Calcite lime at Home Depot so it shouldn't be too hard for people to find some sort of alternative..
Like was mentioned, calcium carbonate is calcium carbonate, is calcium carbonate. The calcitic lime at HD will work just fine if you are not in the area where Pacific Pearl is local. Wet
^^^^ Like was mentioned, Pacific Pearl is local to me, HD carries calcite lime so this isn't much of a problem. I'd say calcium carbonate is calcium carbonate IF it's the same particle/mesh size. Otherwise, the feed store oyster shell (calcium carbonate) would be perfectly fine to use.
Some time ago Coot had linked me to a "superfine" lime. I don't have lime in my mix (I have composted lobster shells) but I can totally see how the super fine ground lime products would work much, much better than the "regular" ground. If I remember correctly this is the product. https://www.azurestandard.com/shop/product/839/ MICRONA Ag H2O-10 Solution Grade (325 mesh) is an ultra-fine, white, natural limestone powder with proven advantages far above standard Ag-lime. MICRONA is used in direct soil and irrigation applications for specialty crops such as grapes, high quality row crop, cane berry, nursery stock, and other valuable crops. Use of MICRONA results in fast soil pH change. MICRONA can be used as a light-reflective agent, however it is not suitable for sunburn protection. J
45th parallel left coast means you're close enough to source any of these good sources of humic material: oly mtn fish compost, Northwest redworms, Dean innovations, Malibu biodynamic. If you're close to concentrates nw, I'd recommend a visit.