So I'm gonna make this as short an quick as possible. I've got plenty of brown / carbon based material for my pile, but nowhere near as much green / nitrogenous material. What do I do? Is there some way I can save my green material and collect it over time without it being ruined and anaerobic by the time I have enough? Or do I just add it little by little or what? I understand thermal composting requires a certain mass in order for the process to work, so I was under the impression you should add it all together at once.
You want to put the moist greens underneath... The already dead ones will rot first and pile onto to more rich stuff and compact it in. Just keep building up the pile for a few years... I use it for my grows... Works great. Almost no need for supplements.
Try sourcing "hay" in your area for green material. Alfalfa, rye, mix, whatever... Just make sure that is NOT "certified weed free". Start at feed stores... HOW you build compost depends on what your goals are...
The whole reason in trying to start a thermal pile is for quicker results. High core temps, 140-160F, no higher, then turn it. Thermophilic bacteria, as opposed to cool temperature bacteria (I forgot the name) work much faster. And everyone says you need at least a 3'Wx3'Lx3'H pile in order for it to heat up enough. @waktoo I'll look into that, I've also made plans to check with local cafés for coffee grounds and tea leaves / bags, also going to be using a lot of spent carved pumpkins within the next few days. So I'll be able to find enough green material, OVER TIME, but what do I do with the increments until I have a large enough total amount? For example, say I get pumpkins to break up and add on Monday. And then on Friday, I get the first load of coffee grounds and tea leaves. Then on Tuesday the next week, I get ahold of some alfalfa. Will I add the pumpkins on Monday as soon as I get them, or would it be best to somehow store the pumpkins with the coffee grounds and alfalfa until I have enough total green material to build the 3x3x3 pile all in one day?
The heat piles don't happen until many years of piling on. You can't start one overnight. It isn't possible. The bacteria colonize from the rotting not the heat. You need to have the proper substrate or you won't see results...
Ok, but why have I seen so many people saying that you can achieve a usable finished, cured product in a few (4-5) months as opposed to years, then?
Because it depends on material and climate. You can't compare others results to yours with so many different factors. Compost is random, there isn't solid mechanics to it, just like nature in general. It will do it's work and just observe. Humanities need to rush causes more problems than it permits. Patience young grasshopper the time will come.
I reach 150F in less than three days. I build at about 7000' altitude in the SW Colorado Rockies. Sustained thermophilic temps of over 140F for at least two weeks. Flippin' regularly... If you've followed the pile size that you've already mentioned, you will have usable compost in less than 4 months, considering local environmental conditions of course. I used to hoard organic veg' material ("waste" fruits and veg' from local organic markets) for several weeks before I felt that I had enough "green" material to build an appropriately sized pile. It's a messy proposition... Trust me, find a non-contaminated source of "hay". You won't have to worry about "saving" enough green material. In my experience, hay's are a "go to" when easily available green sources are seasonally unavailable. "Weeds" also serve as excellent "green" material. Pull 'em up by the roots and use the whole plant. You been here yet?... http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1241556-backyard-composting.html Geographically, where are you located? Northern hemisphere composting is just about over if it gets too cold where you live, considering production in a 4-5 month time line... I of course like to push the limits. I just built another pile today...
If you want to make compost you can use in as little as 4-5 months, you will need to construct the pile with all of the materials and all at once. If you're lacking greens, look in to getting some fresh horse manure and/or the coffee grounds. Layer your pile with the greens and browns and moisten along the way. It won't hurt to throw some wood chips into the mix for aeration. I'd start with an oversize pile (4'x4'x4'). Once the pile heats up, it will shrink and you still want it to be at least 3'x3'x3'. The most important tool when hot composting is compost thermometer. You can order them at Amazon for about 25 bucks and Home Depot has some online for 20. Get your thermometer stuck in to the core of the pile and check the temps a couple of times a day. You want to get up to at least 135`. If it doesn't heat up into the 130's, you'll need to turn it and add more greens. Once you get the pile heated up into the sweet spot, monitor it and as soon as temps drop, you'll want to turn it again. With the correct moisture and C:N ratio, it should hold the temps about 3-4 days. You'll need to turn it again as soon as temps in the core begin to drop. Let it ramp up again and repeat the process. When the pile will no longer heat up above 113`, your pile has entered the mesophilic stage. This is the curing and maturation stage and is an important part of the process. Bacterial decomposition will be joined by fungal decomposition. You'll notice insects, mites, millipedes, centipedes, pseudoscorpions and worms enter the pile during this phase. These are all decomposers and contribute to the composting process. It's important to keep the pile covered to prevent it from getting to wet and to prevent nutrient leaching. If you follow these guidelines, you should have useable compost in 4-5 months. The longer the compost is allowed to cure, the better it will be. A lot of the organic gardeners in this forum add amendments to their compost during the curing stage. Kelp meal, rock dust, crab meal and oyster shell flour are a few that we use and it is not required, but certainly makes your compost a better product. Chunk
"The heat piles don't happen until many years of piling on. You can't start one overnight. It isn't possible." This makes absolutely no sense at all - no offense meant. I often build compost heaps and within 48 hours they are so hot inside you could almost burn your arm by sticking it in the heap. J
"Compost is random, there isn't solid mechanics to it" Of course there is. If a 25:1 to 30:1 Carbon to Nitrogen ratio is followed using the proper materials then very consistent results are guaranteed every time. How do you think the large compost manufacturers stay in business? J
@waktoo Thanks for the info, that helps a lot. I have some access to weeds and I'm going to check craigslist later on to see if I can source any local hay. And, geographically I'm in Central California. It gets "cold" but it usually doesn't get ridiculously cold. We usually have - accumulatively -maybe two or three weeks of nights where it drops to freezing or below. Usually never gets that low during the day. Does this sound problematic..? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems I'm in a much warmer location than you. I guess if it takes longer, it takes longer... I just really thought it would be cool to have some compost ready by the time I plant my veggies and tobacco, and set my Ladies out next year. I've been dying to finally make the switch to true organics, especially after the money I spent on questionable things this season. Rain is one thing I was concerned about, but i figure I'll cover the pile. That seems to solve / prevent three potential problems: Oversaturation, excessive evaporation, and it keeps heat in, even if it only slightly contributes. Thanks for the link, I've read a bit on that page in the past when I thought I was ready to do this before, but I'll read through again. @Chunk Thanks for the info as well. I actually do know of someone who may be able to provide horse manure. I'm also going to check around for the coffee grounds today, inform everyone I know to give me their jack o lanterns after today instead of throwing them away, and I'm gonna look for some hay and gather some weeds too. I noticed today that there is a shitload of sorrel growing on my property today (I think that's the name? The dynamic accumulator mistakenly called "Clovers") so yeah, I think this still just might work out. As far as amending with kelp meal, etc. during the curing phase, I may decide to so that, I may not. My "final" goal here is to mix up a kick ass living / water only soil anyway. So yeah. Thanks for the great info @jerry111165 Thanks for your input, seeing that information coming from you definitely is a reassurance.
hey wak.. what's the deal with "certified weed free?" reason I ask is because the stuff i use for mulching my pots claims “virtually weed free†is that a bad thing?
Solo's got it. I live in cattle country. In my neck of the woods, it means it most likely has been sprayed with aminopyralid (brand name Milestone, courtesy of Dow Chemical). Aminopyralids are a class of persistent broad leaf herbicides that are typically used on "hay" fields grown for cattle/livestock feed. A lot of herbicides break down rather quickly and are usually not an issue, but this shit is the DEVIL! It will remain active even after passing though the digestive tract of an animal AND being processed through thermophilic composting, thereby rendering the majority of manures around here totally useless. It ruins just about any vegetable that a gardener might want to plant. I can't even trust straw around here that's labeled "certified weed free" 'cause the purveyors that sell it can't tell me WHERE it comes from (other than a geographical area) or WHAT it's been sprayed with to make it "certified". It's been a real problem for the organic farmers and gardeners around here for years now. Sourcing non contaminated materials for composting has become a real bitch...
I'd say you're good to go! If you maintain your compost pile correctly, you will have excellent material for your gardens next grow season.
http://oregonbd.org/nitrogen-content/ Hope that helps with achieving as close to a 30:1 finished pile ratio as you can. I dont worry about ratios if i can wait a year for compost, but if you want finished product asap, follow what chunk and jerry said. The more hands off/care free you get with the process, the longer it will take nature to sort it out.
Excellent! Thanks for all the information and help everyone, I really appreciate it. So I've made some progress on sourcing some different things, and I'm gonna be making a few pick ups this coming week. Hay, manure, waste pumpkins, etc. However, just as kind of an "if necessary" thing to have on hand, I've still been saving kitchen scraps. My question is, if this "green" / nitrogenous material dries out while in the pale, accumulating, will it still be considered "green" when the time comes to build the pile?
And to be honest, I'm not sure I do understand the ratio 100%. How do you arrive at a "finished pile ratio" of 25-30:1, if, for example, alfalfa is 30:1 itself? I've seen a different table where different items either receive a "C", an "N", or "O" individually, but I've never seen a table where every single item shows a ratio of the two, so that's confusing me. This is probably a really ignorant question, and I'm probably just too medicated (made some wax today lol), but id appreciate the input anyways.