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Cannabis Paste? Or Cannabis Oil?

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by PasteRocks, Oct 26, 2014.

  1.  
    I have already compared it with my upper cheek/gum. Doing it this way the high pretty much seemed the same, but did hit me a little faster compared to just dropping it on my tongue and swallowing.
     
    Comparing it to RSO:
     
    The ND Sap high is very different. The ND Sap seems a lot more clean. You can feel the terpenes have the opposite effect of anxiety, more mentally comfortable. Best I can explain it. You do feel the terpenes wear off and the next day there is more of a normal clean buzz. A little more intense.
    Also, when I made a batch of oil with iso and winterized it with grain alcohol. That offered even a different buzz. It was a very intense visual buzz, but did not last as long. It seemed like it was pure THC.
     
    The ND Sap high is weaker but is also stronger. The ND Sap lasts at least twice as long as the RSO. It is more mellow and comfortable. The RSO seems more intense and more anxiety. Some people may prefer that.
     
    The ND Sap seems to offer the same pain relief as RSO when it comes to ingesting. However, when I used it topically and on a toothache, it relieved 100% of the pain instantly, RSO did not.
     
    The ND Sap seems to hit a bit faster than the RSO. Keeping in mind I have the ND Sap in somewhat of a liquid state compared to the RSO. I suspect that the ND Sap hits faster because it is thinner than the RSO, then again, it could be the additional terpenes being present that aid in the absorption.
     
    How long the high lasts is difficult to answer. I have been on oil for 5 years. 4 years on RSO, 1 year ND Sap. There were a few short terms that I was not taking any. When I went clean on RSO the buzz and effects were completely out of me within 2 days. I am only referring to taking daily maintenance size doses. With the ND Sap, when I stopped taking that, again, small maintenance doses, I was still filling some effects after 72 hours of not taking any. It is strange how it lasts so long.
     
    The first effect of the ND Sap is more of a background high, after the terpenes seem to be used up it them becomes more of a blatant high.
    With the ND Sap that was winterized, it is upfront and an intense visual buzz, the most intense visual buzz I have ever felt.
     
     
    All three types are great, but medicinally speaking I would place my bet on the ND Sap.
     
    I don't over filter it. I try to keep it as natural as possible. Most of the terpenes float on top and others sink. I want to be sure I get all of the terpenes I can.
     
  2. #22 PasteRocks, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2015
    <span>Jack Dabs</span>
    Your misleading the truth because its a threat to you. No other reason.
    You my friend have never made cannabis paste. Its obvious you haven't. LOL
     
  3. #23 Jack Dabs, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2015
    Misleading the truth if you actually read my posts you would (hopefully) realize I am trying to uncover THE truth not YOUR truth. A threat to me, please do tell how you came to this conclusion because I live in a territory where not even medical cannabis is legal so I have zero commercial interest in slagging off any means of injestion just trying to encourage healthy debate. Seems with a name like Paste Rocks you have already made up your mind and you probably work for or own New Cure as it seems you are projecting your own guilt there maybe?

    I am sitting with a jar of paste in my kitchen, believe it don't believe, I really don't care but I made a side by side comparrison of paste and RSO from the same batch and even bought a decent induction hob to keep the temps consistent to make both. As I stated before I am in it for the pain management and I found the paste did not work as well for pain as what the oil did, should I lie and say that it did so I don't ruffle your feathers? On the same note I also said it helped my brother with his pain - his is undiagnosed (as of now) and started after he had to have surgery to remove a cancerous tumor, mine is more of a spasming nerve pain. So it works well for his pain, comparable to RSO for his pain and maybe even better. Hard to tell when his pain levels had been down for a week or so before he started taking it but his pain vanished to nothing while it didnt make nearly as much of a dent in mine. It did however make us both lethargic and I experienced discomfort from what felt like a sugar low. Those are the facts of our experience. I am not claiming it is evidence one way or another, I am sharing my findings and experiences so that others can make their own decisions based on what is right for them. That is all we can do until we have all the REAL scientific data. You may want to have a look at Psychedelic Sam's thread where he is trying to determin the rate of decarb through having his samples tested, very interesting that it potentially opens up a whole new world of naturally decarbed medicine with a measure of control. Any agendas perceived from this is likely conflicting with your own not mine.

    Sorry but when you make bold hostile comments like the ones I quoted above plus things like ''what genius decided to throw the rest away'' and then claim to have ''scientific evidence'' that makes the RSO ''medically futile'', expect a little heat coming your way. I tell you what ''genius'' decided thats the way to do it, the ''genius'' who has dedicated his life to giving it away to heal others and who has countless success stories to back it up. Are you doing the same with the paste, where are your testimonials? I am not attacking the paste I am attacking your convictions that you seem to believe are backed with scientific evidence. I am no Rick Simpson disciple, I admire the man and what he has done but he is also very set in his ways and refuses to acknowledge new and/or improved methods of injesting this medicine. I suppose that is his perogative after saving countless lives using his methods.

    As I stated before the data seems to suggest that the tissues in our body need to be saturated with cannabinoids before the really fast healing begins and that takes a little time even with high doses of the oil. How we get them into our bodies is one thing, the fact remains that terpenes have medicinal value and work synergistically with cannabinoids and heat destroys them. You seem to think I am knocking paste for oil, I am not, I prefer oil, I have a suspicion my brother may prefer paste (I will ask him) but I think there are better mothods coming to light where terpenes are preserved in the medicine and I believe that would be better for both options. Here's the thing you can naturally decarb oil or paste and where it gets even better is you can make a batch of both from the same herb if you really wanted to. I also read on one of the paste forums that someone tried different methods, crockpot,hob etc and one which was left in a cupboard and forgotten about. That one was deemed to be the most potent as it had naturally decarbed.

    Like I said both have their merits but if I was really sick and time was a factor, I think I would go for the oil mainly because of the reams of anecdotal (hate that term, just because it doesnt have an official stamp on it doesnt mean its not relevant or true) evidence suggest the oil has the best track record and high concentrations for very sick people just makes sense (to me) without having and real scientific comparrison to go on.As a healthy maintenece dose I may go for the paste provided I try both of them that have been naturally decarbed and I will see which one suits me and my pain management. Who knows maybe all the evidence will start weighing up in the paste's corner over time and that will be the new RSO. I will personally be making naturally decarbed oil and paste because terpenes have medicinal properties, that is a FACT so lets work with the facts and try and evolve our methods to make the best medicine possible. That is all I care about and if you cant see that then sorry I cant help it. Hopefully you understand it is not a personal attack. We are all part of this ongoing experiment. The more info we can collate nd the more personal experiences we can document the better.Its about making the best medicine possible not a pissing contest between oil and paste.

    Peace
     
  4. Thank you GG those are very interesting observations and I can totally believe everything you are saying. It blows my mind how long your ND sap seems to last and I am very grateful to hear that the anxiety levels are drastically reduced with the natural decarb.

    I inadvertantly ran an interesting experiment on my mom recently. She has started vaping herb for her arthritis and other conditions and I have just recently had a harvest. As a blind experiment I gave her 3 different types of buds and only told her the names of the strains and asked her which one helped with her problems the most.

    2 of the buds were recently harvested and the 3rd was from my private stash of buds that have been cured 6+ months. She refuses to touch the harvested ones and says they make her jittery, anxious and ''make her mind go all over the place''. She asked for more of the cured bud and said that it relaxes her and helps her pain and she finds it very serene.

    I grew 4 different strains and have tried 3 of them so far and I have found the same thing especially when compared to the cured buds. I also just took delivery of my 192 proof Polish vodka so will be making some oil and paste to be naturally decarbed. Obviously it will be a while before it's decarbed but I intend to take some right away to see if it helps with pain as THCa and CBDa have medicinal properties and with the presence of terpenes I am hoping for reduced pain levels without the high, in some ways that would be ideal as i have a backlog of work I need to get through and could do with a clear head.

    Interesting that putting it on your gums didn't make much difference apart from hitting you faster. That is one potential draw back in that it means the tacking method (for oil) is unlikely to work. Seems some believe it works and others don't but I have found that it does reduce the high drastically. Whether that is actually due to the claims of it reaching the CB1 receptors first or because it acts as such a slow release that it feels more like a gentle background high, I am not sure, guess we will have to keep experimenting away.

    Thanks again for sharing what you know and have discovered, it really is helping the community at large.
     
  5. Jack Dabs
     
    I will surely be waiting to hear of your results with the new experiments you are running. It would be very appreciated to get your feedback. A lot of people ask me questions and in many situations, especially in regards to naturally decarbed concentrates, all I can offer them is my opinions and experiences. At this point that is all I have. There are a few, like yourself, who are giving it a go, but it will take some time to get the results.
     
    Very interested to get the results of the paste you plan to allow to naturally decarb too. I have had a couple people ask me about paste and I have no knowledge or experience with it.
     
    I, like you, am keeping an open mind on all processes. It is not about money, reputation, or looks, it is about medicine and sharing information.
     
  6.  
    Coming in with under ten posts and claiming to have a breakthrough like you're claiming leaves a pretty heavy burden of proof on you. Until you can demonstrate how, in fact, this "paste" is 80% more effective than a more conventionally made extraction, your claims are going to look as flimsy as a wet rolling paper.
     
    How would this "truth" threaten anyone, anyway?
     
  7. Thanks GG I will definitely keep you informed and we can continue to share our experiences and hopefully find what works for us. This time round I have decided that i am going to make the naturally decarbed oil and use the leftover product to make some topical cream. The reason is basically that I have some RSO and some paste for now so by adding the topical cream it's just one added thing to try.

    The next time round i will definitely make naturally decarbed oil and paste and it wont be too long from now. I want to keep a steady supply of oil and paste from now on and obviously with it taking time to decarb, i plan to do small batches regularly. Thanks again so much for sharing what you know and have learnt.
     
  8. going to try the paste. Mom has cancer, Doc gave her 6months, and nothing else to do. They wont even let her edmit to the ER for ANYTHING.  Started as pancreatic, now lung and starting into bones and under diapham, and spreading fast.  She is now in my care, and just cant let go while eveyone else in the family is making funeral arrangments already.  No money, utilities about to get cut off, car about to get repoed, so need a frugle medicine. She is in high spirits, and understands where we are at this jucture.  She got the run around the entire time, told she had it, then didnt, 4 differant times.  She had a bad blockage in her stomach and just had surgery to bypass a part of he stomach so she can atleast eat, but she can still atleast get nutriant breakdown. 
     
    Starting her on Omega 3 today to prime her receptors, but administration to paste is a big dilema. I want to get in a much as possible, as fast as possible, so thought the skin application would be best.  Just dont know how much or how often, or how much skin coverage per application.  Also plan on capsuling the plant matter and giving her those also, AND, Just plain uncarbed plant matter in caps.
     
    She didnt have a good time the last time she smoked a few years ago, almost had a seiszer (sp)(LOL).  So Im planning to start small, like 1/2 gram per cap, working her up to 3 grams a day as soon as possible.
     
    Its the last dart
     
  9.  
    I've got some RSO in a sealed vial, not airtight though. It's 3 years old and I can't seem to squeeze any out, it seems to have hardened on the top/bottom. Do you think it's still safe to use if I open it up? Can I do anything with the drier parts such as heating/melting it?
     
    Only reason it's so old is because I've had no one to use it on. So I was going to use it on myself just for general health as it's just been sitting around for years wasted.
     
  10.  
    I have never had RSO go bad. If it is dried out, you may want to add a little 190 proof or 200 proof ethyl alcohol to moisten it up. This will take some patience and time. Preferably the same solvent you originally used. It may require a little warmth (vial in hot water is a good method) or a coffee mug warmer, but not too much so it doesn't get ruined. It may end up less potent, but, it may end up more potent. 
     
    As long as there isn't any mold on it, you should be fine. My older oil was sealed very well, and it is more potent than when it was fresh.
     
  11. Adding isopropyl alcohol? But it's not going to be cooked again, so that alcohol will stay there won't it? What if I add the vial to hot water alone? Or even add just the paste to a bit of hot water to moisten it?
     
  12.  
    I would first try the vial in hot water to see if it will "melt".
     
    Adding iso to it, then allow it to evaporate with no heat. 50/50 whether or not there will be iso remaining. If it is a small amount, I would not be too concerned.
     
    Your best bet is probably to winterize it with grain alcohol. Dilute it with grain alcohol, put it in the freezer for a day or two, filter though a paper coffee filter, allow to dry to desired thickness, and enjoy. You will lose some of the product with this route, but it is probably the more safe, healthy route. I recommend to use 190 proof or higher grain alcohol. You can also use 200 proof ethyl for the winterizing.
     
  13. Can the vial be sliced open? If so, scrape off what you can after breaking open the vial and put small measured amounts in gelatin capsules and go from there.
     
  14. More consideration on cannabis paste vs. concentrated oil.


    I can't say that I have made cannabis paste or know too much about it, but I can say this. When it comes to making a potent medicine to treat an illness, you may want to take into consideration the shelf life. I am 100% confident that alcohol type extracts have the longest shelf life. RSO, ND Sap, QWISO, QWET, etc. Probably other solvents like BHO, but I really can't speak for those since I have no experience with them.


    I have RSO that is over 4 years old now and it is so potent and intense, I don't care to take it. It has not decreased in potency, if anything, it has increased. It stayed preserved perfectly. It has been at room temperature in my safe. Using other products to make an oil or paste can easily go rancid in a short period of time. Days, weeks, or months. So just take that into consideration before deciding what product to make.


    The reason why I bring this up is that I have been reading Herbal Recipes for Vibrant Health by Rosebary Gladstar. She discusses different methods of medicinal treatment with herbs. She discusses different recipes that go rancid easily except for alcohol extracts excluding some of the long term naturally decarbed herbal extracts where the plant has natural properties that prevent the extract going rancid. I highly recommend her books along with essential oil books.


    I recommend all of these books from different authors. They have been a great asset for me in making concentrates and giving me new ideas.
    Herbs and oils 6-23-15 045.jpg


     
  15. There is a company in Colorado manufacturing an easy to use wax and oil extractor for use in the kitchen. It rocks. Alcohol based, runs cool, and makes about 4-5 grams of wax in an hour and a half. No fumes, and you re-use the alcohol. It is the size of a small toaster or a blender, and costed us 450 as one of the first users. It is crazy easy, clean, and safe. We used it to extract about 40 grams of wax from a bit over 8 ounces of good trim and some whole plant in a couple of evenings. The stuff is good. It is that simple. Some of it is prime kush, and the rest is R4.

    The crazy part is you run it from your cell phone app if you want to. Total control. You have to see this to believe it.


    This is going to let anyone make oil in their own home with their own grows. The guy that made it wants to get it into more MMJ users hands. A few extractions from a good CBD grow and the machine pays for itself.
     

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