Cannabis Paste? Or Cannabis Oil?

The biggest flaw in this paste, theoretically for me, is that I don't want to eat the plant, I want to consume the cannabinoids. RSO strips cannabinoids from the leaf material, so that you get a good concentration. Concentration is key. You want to flood your system with cannabinoids.
 
Yes, you feel  the paste more, because it's more bioavailable, and will be metabolized more easily by the liver, by  more people, but even that varies. For the purposes of cancer and other illnesses, which is what most people are using the oil for, not every person wants to feel that stoned. For pain relief, sure that can be a way more effective means of using it. But I would still want to strain mine, so that I don' get all those burps. Or I'd use hash, so I didn't have to strain it, though I'm sure that would cut down on the longevity a bit, even with smaller daily doses. 
 
I use the leftovers for topical applications. More than one way to skin a cat.  
 
oh, and edit to add that even volatile chemicals can vape off, if done correctly. If getting at a dispensary, it should be tested, if doing yourself, do it well. Plus, it hasn't stopped the use of many of those chemicals in other foods and products. Plus not everyone can regularly consume fat, like oil. And, you can use regular old alcohol to make the RSO, a high proof, sure, but not exactly hazmat suit requirements attached. 

 

Yeah, if you want to compare potency and effectiveness between these two products you'll need to lab test the paste so you really know what you have.
 
The "2.4g" dose cited that makes people feel "maxed out" doesn't really mean much until we know exactly how many mg of cannabinoids that dose is. People feel maxed out on 2 rice grains of RSO, but they work their way up to taking a gram. If the "max out" dose is 50mg THC, we can assume people are taking 500+mg THC regularly by taking megadoses of RSO.
 
The question is- is 2.4g of the cannabis paste around 50mg of THC, or more than that?
 
Another question is how much of the paste is decarboxylated, given that the process uses low heat. A non decarboxylated product is not as effective for a lot of ailments as a decarboxylated one.

 

lmao have fun with that then!

 

RSO vs. Cannabis Paste
 
I would invest in the RSO, as a matter of fact, I have!
 
I have been taking it now for about 4 years for pain management and as a preventative, especially towards cancer. The odds for a woman getting cancer is 1:3.
 
I can't fairly say that RSO is more efficient, but I can attest that it works. Especially when it is made to high standards.
 
My first cancer patient who had Hodgkin's Lymphoma was not even able to take more than 1/2 gram per day. Within 6 months, the tumors were gone! Prior to taking the RSO he had gone through about 11 years of different treatments from chemotherapy, radiation treatments, and even bone marrow transplants. Nothing worked until he tried the RSO. It has been three years and is still cancer free today. The point is, he still takes one small dose per day of quality RSO and it keeps the Hodgkin's Lymphoma in remission. A couple of ounces of premium bud converted into RSO correctly lasts him a good 2 months. Same for me, and sometimes I am feeling the effects 24/7.
 
Other reasons RSO could possibly be a better choice are: it is more concentrated so it is more convenient to store. The oil has a very long shelf life. I know this because I have some oil that is over 2 years old and it is just as potent as when it was made, actually a bit more potent due to being very gentle in making the oil, within 6 weeks it will continue to decacrb naturally. Probably the same for the paste. If you don't fully decarb it, you can allow it to naturally decarb. The RSO does not need to be stored in a refrigerator. It stays good just fine in a syringe, especially if you put that syringe into a sealed jar.
 
I only use the cream of my crops to make the oil. Everything else is secondary. This RSO was made with 99% isopropyl alcohol. Virgin frozen extract, no winterizing, filtered with a reusable coffee filter.
 
Here are some past RSO pictures.
 
View attachment 125693
 
View attachment 125681
 
View attachment 125680
 
View attachment 125628
 
 
I don't take RSO anymore. This is recent. So actually, I would not choose either method. I will give one example why my new oil is better. RSO put onto my toothache, no changes, nothing worked to take away the pain. One drop of my new oil, what I call ND Sap, instant relief! Coincidentally, one of my patients also had a toothache. I was happy to hear that, sad to say!, but I was looking forward to having them try the ND Sap on their tooth. The looked at me in disbelief, but was willing to try. Same effect, toothache gone!
 
The reason this oil has the medicinal properties to take out the toothache where RSO and cannabis paste do not is because this oil had no heat applied in the processing. It never exceeded room temperature. After you exceed room temperature by heating, a lot of the medicinal properties evaporate. I didn't believe it until I saw it.
 
I came across this by accident actually. I made over 30 grams of QWISO hash to use for testing vaporizers. I was not able to consume it all within 90-100 days. I tried, believe me, I did!   Anyway, here and there I was taking a small sample dose. All of a sudden, whammo! It was the most potent oil I had ever ingested. I will say that it was winterized with grain alcohol. Now I make this oil only with 190 proof and higher grain alcohol. 100% organically grown buds, top shelf, 192 proof polish vodka, pyrex baking dishes, and a fan. That is all I use. I will put this oil up against any concentrate.
 
Here is a picture of the winterized QWISO. I have problems managing just taking one dose of this.This stuff is very potent. The buzz is so much cleaner, intense visual effects, and for some reason the buzz lasts well over 12 hours. Much longer than RSO.
View attachment 147748
 
I call this ND Sap or Naturally Decarbed Sap. When it is purged of the alcohol to the desired thickness (when using 190 proof or higher grain alcohol) I simply pour it off into small vials for storage. I only fill the vials about half way now since during the decarbing process it builds up pressure and can release CO2 like shaking a pop can. You have to be careful when releasing the pressure. The oil decarbs in about 100 to 120 days. I just make my oil in advance so when I am ready for it, it is ready for me.
 

Just my two cents...

 

Hi Grow Goddess
 
That looks absolutely amazing. I have been making RSO for chronic pain with varying results and have been very eager to try naturally decarbed oil. I have also noticed that the oil tends to increase in potency the longer it is left. 
 
I sincerely hope you are still around and would be kind enough answer my questions. 
 
I generally freeze the buds and alcohol and then do the usual evaporation process by applying heat. I would love to know how you do it?
 
By covering the buds in alcohol there is so much there that it would take ages to evaporate, how on earth do you do it? I have heard of having a fan blowing over it constantly or leaving it in a warm dark cupboard. Please could you tell me how you reduce the alcohol without applying heat?

 

you could quote her posts or contact her in personal messaging to get a response, she may not see your post otherwise. peace

 

Thanks Galaxy 420 I have sent her a message, really hope she replys and posts her answer here, so many people would love to know how she does it.

 

I did reply to Jack on 3/19. I didn't realize the thread had continued. Also, I just sampled some RSO oil I made with 99% isopropyl alcohol, about 4 years ago. The RSO has an extremely long shelf life. The oil was stored in a sealed vial that was stored in another sealed jar. The storage jar was kept in a dark place at room temperature. The oil did not change at all. Same taste, same potency, and same thickness as when it was first put into the vial. I assume most concentrates have a long shelf life as long as they are stored correctly.
 
Here is the reply:
 
It is easy for me to evaporate the alcohol with no heat. My kitchen has a lot of large windows. I also burn wood for heat too and that keeps the humidity down. The largest extraction I have done in my kitchen, with the windows open, produced over 30 grams of ND Sap. I feel that I was pushing it evaporating that much solvent at one time though. I feel that I was getting into the unsafe territory of the vapors.
 
It is not as bad working with grain alcohol. 190 proof or higher, preferably 200 proof KleenXtract. I will be providing some results on that in my blog soon.
 
I removed the link, but google Grow Goddess' Blog
 
Take a look at the RSO, QWISO, QWET, and ND Sap ... blog. Your questions will probably be answered there. If you do have questions after reading it over, fell free to ask.
 
To make larger quantities, and doing it indoors where it is nice and dry, even if you are using a dehumidifier and exhaust fan, you can make small quantities 7 days a week, and in the end that would be a large quantity.
 
The key is dating the vials and doing it perpetually so there is a consistent supply, like with a grow.
 
It is worth making the change! The ND Sap, using my best buds, where most of the terpenes are located, in the actual flower, makes all the difference. It seems to really exceed the claims of cures in Rick Simpson's video. Almost everything I have tried ND Sap, it has cured, I can't say that for RSO.
 
Just remember, keep it in a liquid state, like honey, for 100 days. 120 days may be better, I have not been able to confirm that yet. It will naturally decarb. After the 100 - 120 days, you can then allow the remaining solvent evaporate off to the thickness you desire.
 
Hope this helps!

 
This is just a partial picure. There is a lot more solvent being evaporated on the table in additional dishes. I just do an ounce or two at a time now. A large quantity can be done over multiple days instead of all at one time.
View attachment 136699

 

Amazing find GG all through logical thought processes and desire to make the best medicine. 
 
I have just finished reading your blog from start to finish and have signed up but am awaiting email confirmation, i will stay in contact with you there if you prefer?
 
I have a batch from trim and popcorn buds sitting outside evaporating as we speak but I plan to add a little heat to purge it as I need instant pain relief meds. On far too many chemical drugs at the moment so its pretty urgent.
 
I do have one question, I have to use iso  alcohol 99.9% as grain alcohol is impossible to find where I am. I have managed to source 192 proof Polish Vodka but its imported and damn expensive so I will buy one bottle. My plan is to evaporate all the iso off and then add the grain alcohol to dilute it and make it runny again before putting it in vials. Before this I will put it in the freezer as the cold temps solidify some of the plant waste and running it through a coffee filter again will get out some more of the plant waxes. Is this what you are referring to when you talk of winterising afterwards?
 
I am very keen to be a part of this ongoing experiment and will keep you updated either here or on your blog. Thanks so much for getting back to me and sharing your discoveries. We need loads more people like you.

 

 
Thanks for the compliments.
 
It probably would be easier to speak where the blogs are or at that site, I check them more frequently. It is fine here too though. Feel free to post a note to the blogs as well.
 
Yes, adding the grain alcohol to an iso oil is what I am referring to with winterizing. That is all I will use 192 proof for from now on, winterizing, also keeping my extracts in a liquid state. I will probably never use190 or 192 for the full extraction again. too much water left behind. For winterizing or diluting I have not had an issue with the 190 and 192 proof yet.
 
The problem with diluting iso extractions with grain alcohol (not winterizing) is it will cause separation. It is kind of mandatory to winterize when diluting an iso extraction with grain alcohol to avoid the seperation and clumping. Filtering it after putting in the freezer solves that issue, but it will remove a lot of the medicinal properties, the filtering. I did do one ND Sap that way and the buzz is different than all of the other extracts I have made. A super clean visual buzz, it is almost like it is pure, clean THC, the best way I can describe it.
 
You have another option. You can keep it in the liquid or honey state with the 99% iso for the 100 days or more in a sealed container. Then after the 100 days open the container and allow it to complete the evaporation at that time.
 
I don't have this fully mastered yet, I am still a beginner. Any additional feedback and experiences added to my blogs would be greatly appreciated. My most recent batch I am keeping in a full liquid state to where I can shake it. That may help it decarb more quickly, not sure yet though. I have a lot of comparing to do to where I have a method that I consider having it mastered. Lately it has been difficult for me to make any progress for several reasons.
 
Whether your results are positive or negative, I would like to hear them. It helps everyone.

 

I've had a lot of bad experiences with chlorophyll in the medicine. Does paste somehow neutralize chlorophyll?

 

I think there is an argument for both. I personally am keen on looking into naturally decarbed oil as I do believe heat will degrade the final product esp with regard to terpenes but I think what needs to be taken into account is that cannabinoids need to saturate the tissue before any real healing begins and the oil/paste may or may not be the best way to that. Lets just say that we don't officially know which is better at this stage and I don't consider the above to be proof of anything yet other than perhaps you get more end product. I am leaning towards the FACT that heat degrades terpenes and we know those terpenes have medicinal value and work synergistically with cannabinoids so (my) logic tells me that naturally decarbed methods are likely to be the best form of medicine.
 
Also there is another option,seen as guys are smoking left over material after an alcohol soak and claiming that there is remaining thc, you could always run the herb through alcohol and make the oil and instead of binning it ,make a paste to supplement the oil with the supposed ''waste''. Best of both worlds and perfectly safe if using grain alcohol.
 
It may mean that the paste is not as strong and can be taken more easily during the day and keep the oil for night time use. It could also offer paste to take while waiting for the oil to naturally decarb. No wastage and two very different methods of ingestion from the same amount of herb.

 

the paste/oil comparison to me is like smoking leaves compared to bud. smoke a lot of leaves to catch a buzz and all the chlorophyll harshness involved and smoke a little bit of bud to catch the same buzz with much smaller amounts of chlorophyll harshness. now compare oils to bud and the tiny amount needed to catch the same buzz with getting close to zero chlorophyll if done right and no harshness. 
 
of course that is the smoking explanation but still ingesting cannabis will have results from the added chlorophyll or none.

 

Also considering people are happy to consume the whole plant, there are heat extraction methods of making RSO which produces much more than the 3-4 grams of oil from an ounce and more like 15 grams per ounce. Granted it will be a much ''dirtier'' final product but the option is still there. I believe its called the reflux method and a google search should give you all the info you need.
 
Add to this the anecdotal evidence suggests that the ''tacking method'' (applying oil on your lower gums) gets cannabinoids to both CB receptors faster and speeds up healing while vastly reducing or eliminating the high making it much easier to take larger amounts. This is a very relevant discovery and plenty more research needs to be put into it. Sometimes quality over quantity does the trick. 
 
While I agree we are trying to make this medicine accessible to as many people as possible and that is fine when people are preventing illness by taking maintenance dose but if someone is very ill and has limited time to beat whatever illness they are facing, they need the best method of ingesting the medicine and the best information possible. The above post is not ''proof'' of anything and to claim it is, is at this stage irresponsible.
 
No offense meant and I am not pro or anti one or the other, who knows maybe a combination of both would work best but until we have more data the fact remains that we do not know. My research and logic says that Grow Goddess is onto something superior to both with the naturally decarbed oil especially if the supposed waste can be used to make paste and or other edibles from. Seems that no wastage is the main argument for the paste and really there doesn't have to be any.

 

I agree with you Jack Dabs, that is not sufficient "proof". It is far more complex. The paste does have some benefits. It will be higher in CBN which can be beneficial for some issues. There are probably other benefits that I just can't think of at the moment.
 
 
When it comes to testing and percentages, well, they are pretty much meaningless to me. The terpenes can alter the percentages drastically, at least potentially they can. Up to 400% based upon the data I have read concerning essential oils terpenes.
 
Somebody can have a heat decarbed oil that tested 95% THC. That does not mean it is stronger or more potent than 65% THC naturally decarbed oil (no heat in the decarb process). The terpenes can potentially quadruple the potency of the compounds in the extract. Somehow they make my buzz last twice as long, if not longer, this is in reference to using a naturally decarbed oil or what I call ND Sap. Yes, I did only get about 3 grams of oil from an ounce of premium bud using a fully organic solvent. That 3 grams has lasted me longer than 3 grams of a heat decarbed oil, much longer. I also wonder if heating the product causes THC to oxidize or become damaged.
 
We are all just speculating because our governments won't allow us to get together, hash things out, and get it all verified.
 
Everybody has their own personal preferences too. For me, after using the ND Sap, which contains essential terpenes, there is no going back. It is a more clean, comfortable, longer lasting buzz. A heat decarbed concentrate almost seems synthetic to me and only offers a more high anxiety buzz. With the ND Sap, I like to use 200 proof ethanol (KleenXtract). For use, I like to keep it in a runny state diluted a little with 190-192 proof grain alcohol. I just use a dropper to put a dose under my tongue. It pretty much dissolves instantly. For me it takes 20-40 minutes to feel the effects. Sometimes instantly if I am already "under the influence". I like to use coconut oil as part of my daily diet. It does effect the oil buzz. Mixing the two together in a gel cap would be fine too.
 
Edit: added content.
Since I am using an organic alcohol, the waste material can be dried and used for something else, like butter or put into cake or brownie mix.
 
In my opinion, highly concentrated extracts is superior. Recently I injured my thumb. One small drop of the ND Sap on the scraped area took away the pain instantly and helped with the healing. I believe the presence of terpenes caused this effect. A paste is not concentrated enough to offer the same results in my opinion. On the other hand, if you had a very large area that needed to be covered, the paste may be the better option.

 

Completely agree GG, it far more complex than that and the blogger made statements like ''this is proof that cannabis oil is scientifically futile compared with the paste'' - wow, thats a very bold statement backed up by not much ''scientific evidence''. I think the poster is letting their ''feelings get in the way of the truth''. Grow Goddess has herself seen at least 2 people cured of cancer from RSO, has anybody else on this thread seen any diseases cured by the paste alone? If so what illness? Lets start to build a picture of what works for what. I am sure paste will likely be more effective for some conditions than oil and vice versa.

The real truth is that this is THE most medicinal plant known to man and the only futile thing I see is that people seem to be choosing a corner neither of which is neccessarily completely correct. Both will definitely have their medicinal application but without the presence of terpenes we will never be getting 100% of the medicinal value and as your personal experience can attest to it makes sense to me that the buzz would be cleaner as there would be more synergy happening between the cannabinoids and terpenes.Juicing is now a huge movement and its medicinal benefit has been proven even with THC and CBD in acid forms (which both have medicinal benefit in their own right) and how much of this can be attributed to the presence of terpenes?

Instead of slugging it out as to which is better, we should be using our collective knowledge to figure out which is good for what condition and build a collection of anecdotal evidence until patterns start emerging and hopefully scientific evidence follows. We dont need government data as much as we think we do as we are the scientific experiment and as more professionals like doctors and researchers get on board the data will be refined further.Our job is to provide the patterns through documentation of our findings which should make their jobs easier. Many people have been cured or treated using RSO and the patterns suggest it works, the same can be said for the paste (to a much lesser degree anecdotal evidence wise), what we need to determin is how to improve our methods, both medicinally and from a safety point of view especially when it comes to people blowing themselves up which does not help our cause. Big tick for the paste there but your naturally decarbed oil almost eliminates that risk too. Just my opinions of course but there seems to be so much conflicting info on the net that sick people dont know where to start.

I agree the paste has to be fantastic medicinally, because you are injesting the plant that has been decarbed but with my experimentation, the high did not feel clean, if anything I felt lethargic and it definitely did not help with pain nearly as much as RSO does and I took enough to get as comparitively high as I would get from the RSO.Both were made from exactly the same plant material. It almost felt like a severe sugar low which I get occasionally. Given that I have been in near constant pain for some time now, I dont need to feel lethargic, i want something that will help with the pain and get me moving and doing things rather than lying around getting depressed because of my condition. It could work wonders for an insomniac though. I know what o take if ever i cant fall asleep. Just like strains certain methods will work better for some things than others. I did the standard 10.5 hour decarb at the suggested temps. Different decarb processes will have different results but that seems the standard and we have enough people using that exact same method to compare some interesting notes. Granted that's my personal opinion and my reaction to it. My brother gets great pain relief from it although he also feels light headed and lethargic. It's a minute comparrison but one worthy of exploration so maybe others can chime in with how it effects them as that is likely to be relevant considering the cannabinoid profile will be different to that of RSO. Could it be the result of CBN as you mentioned and/or others?

Please could you do me a favour next time you dose your ND oil and instead of putting it under the tongue, could you put a drop between your bottom lip and your gum and keep it there as long as possible.

Could you please document the following:

Is the high different?
Is the high weaker?
Does it relieve pain the same, more or less?
Is there a delayed onset?
Comparitively how long does the high last?
Does it feel more background or was it a blatent high

Or of course if there is no difference at all.