Ok... lets get a few things out of the way.. Normally I'd post something like this in the Hip Hop Round Table.. but I find long posts like this get washed away quick N im looking for more of a dedicated discussion.. When I say potential GOAT.. all I mean is in like the TOP 20 list. Not saying by any means he is the GOAT.. just that he should be in consideration without having to hear people mock him. Whenever someone discusses T.I. he is regarded as a 'Nelly' type of artist rather than an Andre 3000. I'm about to lay out some examples as to why I think T.I. is grossly underestimated by most. Please atleast try and read/listen to everything I post if you are going to comment. Nothing annoys me more than someone just reading the title and coming in and saying some irrelevant/ignorant bullshit. Thanks, fam. This thread will not explore any of TIP's singles... any self respecting hip hop head has heard these songs. Lets take a brief history lesson.. Clifford Harris (T.I.) stepped onto the scene with I'm Serious (album) in 2001. Overall the album flopped but that didn't stop TIP from succeeding. He has been one of the most consistent artists in the past 2 decades. Does he have his fair share of singles? absolutely.. TI is one of the best hit-makes from 2004-2009. But lest we forget his introspective self.. examples incoming. T.I. lays down raw introspective anecdotes on the second track (Still ain't forgave myself) of the album 'I'm Serious' to a slow melodic piano carried beat.. Listen to 'Still Aint Forgave Myself' Spoiler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9DAvPMbSmQ Lets take another look at T.I.'s early introspective nature.. Spoiler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSmYJmYLk_8 fast forward to Trap Muzik (second album - 2003) Here is a track where T.I. has an inner monologe debate with with his second soul (TIP) for 3 verses. TI = the business man , TIP = gang baning side of clifford harris. Listen to TI vs TIP Spoiler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deNnr1NnhPM Fast forward to Urban Legend (2004)... Track - 'Why You Mad At Me' as the name implies this track questions why 'haters' at mad at TI for succeeding. Listen to Why You Mad At Me Spoiler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfF61Xaies These 7 bars show TIP's ability to effortlessly lay down (rather) hardcore lyrics over a peaceful and melodic production. I mean.. I could post examples like this all day from any of his albums. Besides T.I.'s ability to relate to his past in a variety of gripping ways... he reaches to an audience many artists can only dream about, He produces singles at a rate that only Lil Wayne can compare to.. and beyond that hes stayed true to his sound for the whole 13 years hes been active in mainstream hip hop. So why is it that T.I. doesn't get any love when it comes to GOAT listings, talks, debates, etc? Not only did he master his craft, inside and out.. From underground (selling his mixtapes to local ATL residents) to mainstream-edness... he also put ATL ON THE MAP. Outkast, UGK, MJG and 8Ball may be the great grandfathers of the ATL sound we know today... but T.I. is the DIRECT LINK to what you are hearing from any southern trap rapper from 2001-presemt. if people wanna talk about artists who influenced other artists and say they are GOAT just because of that.. then T.I. should unquestionably be put into those same discussions as he is much more than just an influence on many artists.
Maybe out of all the rappers who have came out since 2000 but if we're talking greatest of all times.....fuck no.
Figured this wouldn't yield any good results. Just overbloated & dated opinions from people who are too lazy to read past the title. Oh well lol ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
His delivery and vocabulary are on point. He articulates himself well. He's a street cat turned studio gangster/reality tv star so people downplay his talent.
TinTizzy tore your argument to spreads with that one sentence lol. I'd have to agree any goat status he had was lost when he helped perpetuate iggys terrible rise to fame Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
except for the part where it adds nothing to the discussion. Just a trollish comment (like every other one in here) fishing for likes. Thats like saying CUBE can't be considered a GOAT because he started making family movies. Or like saying DRE cant be considered a GOAT because he makes shitty headphones at the end of the day they are business men and seek to make the most money they can. Iggy is market-able. So, looks like I just "tore your argument to "spreads"" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya2xifdO_l0
ok, you want a serious argument. here ya go: TI is terrible. i dont like any of his music. hes not a GOAT in my book because I never hear anyone talk about him this thread is the first time ive heard his name in about 3 years. His career had no where near the success of TRUE GOATS like eminem, dre, cube, snoop, naz, andre 3k, fuck even b real. while im sure you can show me a few examples of his having meaningful songs the only time he ever did anything with a message was that TV show he thought would keep him out of jail.
Please dont comment in this thread if you cant even read the first few sentences of my post lol. I never said he was the GOAT.. just wondering why he doens't get recognition amongs some of the GOATS. Also this is a hideously biased post. If you cant even sit back and judge an artist from a non-biased outlook, why are you commenting? Just for shock value? I dont like eminem in the slightest but I can still sit down and recognize his technical abilities. T.I has influenced and impacted the hip hop genre, specifically ATL, more than you can comprehend. But im not really interested in continuing a non-intelligent conversation with someone who can't approach a topic with a non-biased outlook.
we listen to very different hip hop man, he didnt influence anything that i listen to in the least. the only person that may call him a inspiration would be childish gambino, but i highly doubt he does. His music is like the rest of that early to mid 2000 showy hip hop. which was pretty much all terrible.
ATLiens released 1996.. id say outkast had a bigger overall hip hop influence in Atlanta. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
In my opinion he doesnt rhyme much. Just look at the end of those lyrics. He uses the same words over and over and over. Anyone can rhyme shawty with shawty. Ive heard artists like eminem apologize for using the same word in a verse when freestylin and i have serious respect for him for actually having a vocabulary and respecting the lyricism of hip hop. Ever since crunk its been acceptable to "not rhyme" But i grew up with dj quik, 2pac, xzibit, dre, snoop, etc. and west coast artists who could actually "flow" so my bias is i expect lyricism, and actual rhyming of different words.
Thats not really fair to say since I listen to all hip hop.. I don't discriminate on a subsection whether it be underground, mainstream or indie or whatever. I just listen to whatever sounds good to me. But like I said... you dont have to listen to a respective sub-section of hip hop to be able to appreciate it. I dont like a lot of artists but I can recognize their influence on others and the work they have done to be classics. Also just about anyone from the south and who is involved in southern music names 3 names when it comes to the ATL sound you heard from 2000-now. TI, 8 Ball and MJG. Not saying 3stacks didn't influence things, he just didn't influence The ATL sound right now as much as these other guys did. Mainly because 3stacks influenced TI and then Ti went on to father his own style for artists to try and emulate.. But again, you dont listen to that music so I wouldn't expect you to know that. Your words not mine. "His music is like the rest of that early to mid 2000 showy hip hop. which was pretty much all terrible." The same could be said for a LARGE majority of 80's and 90's rap. I can post examples all day of oldschool cats rapping about nothing more than drugs, diamonds and girls. So... I guess I just dont understand your contemptuous view on mid 2000's hip hop. Those 'shawty' lines were just an excerpt from a verse where hes being introspective on past decisions he could have made. The whole song isn't like rhyming "shawty with shawty" as you suggest. If you would have read past line 4 you would see that the whole excerpt isn't even like that, let-a-lone the whole song. Rapping isn't all about the lyrics that are found on the end of a line. Artists who can tell an ill story without having a ton of glaring words that rhyme can be just as dope as artists who take the biggest words they can find and try and fit them together (dictionary rappers (immortal tech falls into this category often)) If you woulda listened to the song that I posted that those lyrics were from you woulda seen that there are plenty of rhymes to satisfy your thirst.. beyond that the flow is smooth over a piano/jazz beat... Nothing like what your fallacious view on what trap music is. Also I dont like what you said here, it comes off as someone who just dismisses an entire era based on the singles you heard on the radio... Which i'm more than certain is what likely holds to be true.. "Ever since crunk its been acceptable to "not rhyme"" Beyond the overt ignorance of this quote, the song you are critiquing was made WELL before the "crunk era". Example of modern day (2009) lyrical performance from TIP below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H25QrlqDjIo >inb4 "hes just bragging on this song" We can take a detour into braggadocios raps if the class I'm teaching wants to take a lesson. If the direction of hip hop were left to any of you oldschool guys who refuse to listen to newer stuff, we'd be stuck in the same boring cycle of non-innovation. It'd just be the same sound over n over. That just seems boring to me, I like innovation and boundary pushing just as I like some of the originators of the genre.. You guys are like those old grandmas who stuff their money in their mattress because "banks are bad" and refuse to change their ways... Which is fine I guess.. but you shouldn't be expect your opinion on anything other than oldschool stuff to be considered relevant or educated.
Youre obviously biased and offended. You also assume way too much of strangers. I turned my back on a contract when I was 18 years old. I had 250k myspace fans when it first launched, my own studio and locally my music was played on Fresno B95 radio station. I turned my back on that whole lifestyle after doing numerous radio interviews from long beach to fresno. It wasnt for me. The only people i ever hear who want to put this new "music" on a pedistal are teenagers, or people with a limited concept of what music is. The book 1984 talks about a world in the future where music is made by machines, not people. I dont consider samples music, i consider it stealing from other artists due to inability to come up with something original. Point to any of your heroes and we can discuss who they are emulating from the old skool. The problem with kids these days is they think their music is original, when even artists like pac gave respect to the old skool. You literally just defined your age with your whole grandma rant. Id bet youre not more than 16-17 years old. And fyi, look at all the lyrics you posted buddy. I was using shawty as an example. The guy rhymes the same words over and over on every single song you quoted. t.i. Is great if you were born in 1996, otherwise, he's just another artist who cant rhyme two different words. Theres my bias. -poke
You know what they say I guess.. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. Congrats. I dont put new music on a pedestal.. I just dont act like oldschool artists are untouchables. I'm not really interested in talking shop with a guy who rides the proverbial oldschool dick so hard that he can't see straight.