This. and All Time should mean All Time. 10 nominee's at most or the GOAT label loses all meaning. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
What does that make guru? He's straight up OG, and many would argue that he most definitely deserves a spot on the GOAT. I never cared much for 50 cent but I like your comparison of him to TI. I think you make a good point there. But again many would argue 50 to be on that list as well. Dude what? MJ was a fucking legend way before he died. He's been a legend since before I can remember. Biggie became an icon because of his lyrical ability and his and pacs so called "beef". Pac was an icon before he died. Before biggie. Before all of that. Pac was an icon since he stepped on the scene with 2pacalypse now man. Pac was an icon since he popped out of his mommas pussy. I don't know I haven't read the rest of your post yet I had to jump in and say that.
With all due respect, should make another thread for that. I know it has gone offtopic but at least stayed semi on topic with side discussion about comparisons to TI or the obvious GOATS pac and big. *edit* I would like to take part in that thread.
Dont worry about it man, I started this thread to have a discussion, so I'm fully expecting and will read any lengthy reply posted in here. I agree with you on a lot of your points. On to your point, which referenced my point about not enough people recognizing TI's abilities. Big L has a very cult following and yet you see him spattered all across top 5 lists and what not (not saying he doesn't deserve the recognition among die hard fans) I just feel like there is a very serious lack of respect paid to newschool artists, and even more so to SOUTHERN artists. Almost all GOAT contenders from oldschool heads are either in the north (NYC) or the west (Cali). But on to your other point... i'll post 10 tracks which I feel exemplify TI's importance aswell as putting the focus of the song in ( )'s Still aint forgave myself (story telling/introspection) What Happened? (Fictitious story & conversation with god(similar to big L) Verse #2 was impressive)) I'm Talkin' To You (Calls out dozens of southern artists and also praises many others.. This track single handedly put the southern region in an uproar about who he was talking about) Hello (shows the versatility of TI's sound (song for the females)) Da Dopeman (TI teaches youngin's how to get weight in the coke game, and speaks about the eventual downfall they will face) ACT I II III (technically 3 songs, but they are short.. he goes back and forth between his business persona and his street persona) What Up, Whats Happenin (similar to "im talkin to you", this song fueled the ATL scene in 2009 and put his small time (hater) rival "shawty Lo" in his proverbial grave for the rest of hiphop's time) Ready For Whatever (Relates back to his decision to stock-pile illegal firearms in mass quantities and why he feel's he was in the right) Im Illy (impressive lyrical and flow capabilities are showcased on this track) How Life Changed (another introspective look on his past life.. over a much different production than most are used to hearing TI over) Overall these tracks show a pretty versatile look at TI, imo. Its hard to pick only 10 but these are what came to mind as I perused his library.. there are obviously a lot more tracks that are similar to these that I posted but for time and text constraints we gotta keep it semi short. I didn't include any singles in this list either because most people have heard them and already know TI for those songs.. you know.. rubber band man, 24's, u dont know me, what you know etc etc. Bow out of this thread if you aren't interested in a discussion. Its pretty simple.
My bad I just was thinking of GOAT's over the years that are often overlooked. When it comes to the trap game I think more about Jeezy. He has more of a hardened street feel than T.I. in some aspects of his lyrics. I will always respect the hell out of T.I. though, not many men would walk up to Mayweather and slap dude.
I am interested though, lol. You keep getting irritated and not really answering points being made that would discredit your argument. I am a TI fan. Does that make this easier? He has had tons of radio play. Kanye west gets played just as much and I don't hear anyone arguing his name as a goat.
I feel like maybe that's simply because for a long time NYC was the hub of hip hop. and LA. At least in my perception. The south wasn't really on the map until after the 90's. The only southern rap I was even aware of in 1995-96 was like scarface and master p and outkast. But then again I was living in northern Alberta(WOVERIIIIIIIIINELOL) at the time. But then again on the flip side wouldn't that kind of be proof of what's really on the map? When some kid in northern alberta knows about it in 1995, it's on the map and that's undeniable hahaha. The south has definitely made it's way and put itself on the map. I also feel like many people don't consider people even credible for the list unless they been around for a decade. I disagree though. If you are amazing you are amazing. When eminem first stepped on the scene he was automatically one of the greatest ever.
No, I'm not tryna disrespect PAC or MJ, both had great influence in their respective fields. What I'm saying is that I believe that hype Biggie and PAC got was blown out of proportion because they died. Everyone had pretty much stopped listening to MJ especially after the allegations but as soon as he died everyone wants start calling him a GOAT. I'm not saying that either of them weren't great or even that PAC shouldn't be considered as a GoAt all I'm saying is that their recognition became inflated and I believe their status has become a a taboo subject because they died to the point where everyone just screams Biggie and PAC and no one contests it because they are dead and i guess people think it would be inappropriate to do so which makes sense somewhat, but leaves room to doubt their spots at Top 5. The thing about opinions is that they're opinion, naming someone GOAT makes it nearly a statement of fact and to have a rapper get a common following of people who respect him/her even if they don't like him/her is a hard thing to do whic is why my obvious nominee for This thing is Eminem because you have to think, dude has gone out of his way to piss off specific groups of people (People and groups that have large influence in this world), he's changed his style to the point where a decent number of his fans don't support him anymore, He's rapped about the most outrageous shit and had still managed to become someone who most people out right next to Biggie and PAC if not above. The more I write the more I think about. PAC and Biggie (and even to an extent Eminem) flourished within rap during a time where rap was a new concept for the most part. They had the shock value and base foundation to get them where they wanted to be because they've been there practically since Rap's birth, but if you see a lot of rappers today who have also been here since the beginning and they've had to deal With the challenge with constantly adapting to a new and constantly changing genre which isn't something that 2Pac had to do. If you're not careful, When toking from a Vape (dry herb) does the thc get absorbed in the mouth or are you supposed to take it into your lungs just like a joint or a bowl? you get a Lil Wayne... However play your cards right with a few slips and you get an Eminem. All of this is to say I think that Biggie and PAC definitely deserve their GOAT because of their influence and sheer pioneering effort of bringing the rap game to it's peak, however when it comes complex multi syllabic rhyme schemes, with triple entendres, and punchlines, delivery, and lyrical ability they are outmatched by a lot of people in the game today which people don't want to admit because Pac and Biggie are like the gladiators/champions of Old School rap and no old school rap fan wants to see their idol trampled under the feet of new rappers who they refuse to acknowledge because of the power of association.
He doesnt want a discussion. Just another narcissist who wants to shove his opinion down other peoples throat. I loled when he told me im on ol skools dicks, and yet three pages in T.I. Is being compared to b.i.g. And pac. Pac, eminem and ludacris were my favorites growing up. True, but he slapped him. He coulda punched him, its not like mayweathers gonna swing at anyone who can fight
http://forum.grasscity.com/music-genres-bands-artists/1333949-goat-thread-your-top-ten.html I'd like a real discussion on the topic... Sorry if this is already a thread here... I searched first. :lol:
I will literally go through every song you just mentioned give it a listen and then go to rapgenius. That's the place to go if you truly want to know about a rappers merits. But like you were saying, T.I doesn't have a cult like following which is why he hasn't really be considered as a name for GOAT, I haven't listened to him enough for me to make the decision for myself and I might not be able to after listening to 10 (though I believe them to be well Picked so I should be able to.) You just have to keep in mind that GOAT is taking in a lot of things into consideration. A top 5 list would most likely be tailored to my preferred style or sub genre of rap whereas with a GOAT you have to look at less broad aspects, the baseline USUALLY being number of tracks sold, however that's a bullshit thing to run by IMO. Personally what I look for in artist are as follows: -Multi syllabic rhyming (if you're rhyming on the one the syllable or even two syllables too often you're falling behind In this category, a trait that was pretty prominent during the first stages of the game) -Metaphors (this is what made Lil Wayne fall of, he couldn't vary his metaphors, set ups and punches were usually very formulaic) -Punches (when a rapper pulls shit out their ass that I couldn't even dream of writing if I was on the dankest weed, shrooms, Aderall, whatever that's when I start really paying attention to an artist) I'm talkin haymakers in this bitch. Eminem has influenced the game as much PAC and Biggie in the way that he Can make words that don't normally rhyme, rhyme (albeit with some weird accents and some really stretched pronunciation at times but that's his style and it's something that has become a common and almost expected practice within the rap genre (disregarding mainstream rap)
I wasn't even talking to you, i was talking to turbogrowin. TBH i'm not even sure if you are talking to ME, learn to quote please lol.. or atleast @mention who you are talking to And plenty of people have kanye in GOAT lists. Or did you mean that noone tries to argue that he shouldn't be there? Because no sane person would try and discredit kanye with what hes done for hiphop. You can leave this thread anytime lol.. I've been interested in fact driven discussion since post #1 and you've just been trolling with passive aggressive insults. Its cool tho I can get this resolved this pretty quick if you wanna take it that route? Leave or contribute, its pretty basic.
Youre not going to threaten me into leaving any thread. Go ahead and report me, you started the name calling, saying you wont talk to me because im on ol skools dick. My opinion is as valid as yours and im not trolling at all. I just have an opinion and you can get over it. You dont like my opinion, dont make a thread on the internet buddy. I dont think kanye goes on the list. Call me insane. id say tech n9ne is better than t.i. And should be considered before him.
IDK if its really FAIR to discredit an artist just because they dont have a bunch of material to judge them off of.. but it certainly is a rational train of thought. It just doesnt seem right to me to include someone like BIGGIE in a list with a bunch of dudes who have hours of non-posthumous music to listen to. Cool, call me when you'd rather be apart of a discussion rather than bashing me passive aggressively for liking an artist. Until then I'm not really interested in reading your conjecture on artists you haven't explored.
Yeah that's what I'm saying from what I've seen with T.I he just doesn't have the lyrical backing and delivery that tech n9ne has. Style is another important thing with artists, it has to be original, whereas half of mainstream rap I'm pretty sure is done by the same person.
Then we agree, I'm saying the same thing lol. I'm Not saying that either biggie or PAC lacked the talent or would never be able to keep up with today's rappers, just that because they physically can't it's hard for me to just take everyone's word for it and name them GOATs.
Look, I quoted you... Are you going to keep trying to take shots at biggie and adding more about your love for T.I.? I feel like you don't like people with weight problems or something.. Do you also dislike big pun because he died and was pretty hefty? T.I.'s lyrics just don't hold up to people that you'd like to place his name next to. The shawty argument was pretty solid I think. The songs you don't want to put on that list are trap style songs that are very repetitive. They were also some of his most played and purchased singles. What you know is/was a trap nightmare for any of his competition. Jeezy wasn't fucking with that in the slightest.
P.s. biggie would have shut down sooo many people with his multi-sylabic unmerciful rhymes. The dude was before his time.