I dislike the idea of communism at its core. I believe it to be evil in its roots. I won't be discussing real world examples or facts. This is my beef with the philosophy itself. It is no secret that life is unfair. It should be fair iI think. I like Marx's ides that essentially laborers have the most value. That is to say, the top 1% are literally just taking the wealth earned by the working class. All wealth isproduced by the workers. The people at the top, just benefit. That being said, if this were the only philosophy I would be a Communist. I believe everyone has the rite to their fruits of their labor. But this is also a capitalist belief. Everyone should have the opportunity to work. Everyone should be entitled to the fruits of their labor. The first issue then arises when discussing land ownership. If you mine gold on MY property, does the gold.belong to YOU, since you are the worker? The gold is the result of your work. A capitalist would say, there was already a contract in place stating any gold found belongs to the landowner. The landowner is simply paying the worker to do a job (dig). The Communist would say, no one owns the land. The land belongs to everyone. But then go one step further and also say, the gold belongs to everyone. The problem with the capitalist idea supposedly is that it creates a sophisticated version of indentured servitude. Basically the land is all owned by a small ammount of people. Granted there is more to "property" and "wealth" then "land" but the idea is still the same. Capitalism seems to encourage indentured servitude. But I say that's a straw man. One could technically argue that capitalism rewards murder as well. But obviously murder is illegal in all capitalist nations. I say just as it is illegal to kill or rob people, it is/should be illegal to practice fraud of predatory buisneses practices. Many banking practices should be banned as well. We've been fighting the banks for a long time. But we don't need communism to do it. Just a practical justice system. The problem with the Communist version is that no one owns the land. I think that's silly. Why should people not be allowed to own land? Some people are willing to work very hard to earn a house and some property, while some people are willing to not work, and just chill in a town house. Its choice. Why should anyone be told they cannot earn something? One Communist told me, "well it would still be like you own stuff, you just don't" to me this is just silly. Why should people not be allowed to earn for themselves, so that they can take better care of their children? For that matter, why can people not work extra hard so their children's children's children can live easier lives? Obviously there are flaws in any philosophy. In capitalism there is wealth gaps. And people who can't make it don't. But that's actually a good thing and it brings me to my next beef with communism philosophy. In a Communist society, there are no classes. society owns wealth as a whole. This means everyone has access to equal resources. So as more resources are created, society becomes more wealthy. This sounds nice in theory. If society was extremely wealthy. But problems arise when you start talking about how much people need. Eventually a Communist society has to make a choice between population control and lower standards of living. I think population control if any form is pure evil. Not only are you basically deciding who lives and dies, but this opens the door to so many problems. It will inevitably end up as a sophisticated eugenics program. Then I also have a problem with the whole equal wealth thing. As I said previously, different people different needs different wants. I believe in equality. But I don't believe all people "are equal". Many people are obviously faster runners than me. Many people are obviously smarter than me. Not everyone has the wants or needs either. Obviously bigger people need more food. Some people want more food so they can be bigger. Some people don't. Some people want to own land and grow or build things. Some people want to chill in an appartment and play music or games. Some people like chocolate and some people like vanilla. Some people are willing to work more to earn more. Some people are happy where they are at. Everyone should be entitled to the fruit of their labor and everyone should be able to find work. There is plenty of work that can be done. Just not enough people who want to pay for it. Obviously my views seem to coincide with some socialist principles. But I have other views not relevent in this thread. This thread was just about my dislike of communism/marxism Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I know money should be distributed like it is... With billions being spent on war while there are homeless people...
??? are you implying tthat excessive wars and homeless.people are the result.of capitalism? I hope you aren't really that naive about the subject Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Communism doesn't work for various reasons. 1) Government controlled economies always fail eventually. 2) People aren't motivated to work and improve the economy. What's the point of working hard? 3) In order to get everyone to live under communism, you need a police state. Which is why I like the Nordic model the best. You allow free market capitalism to thrive while using higher taxes to fund social programs and entitlements.
Well, to be fair noone who would defend communism would accept an argument based on real world examples of 'communism'...as most anyone sympathetic to communist ideology would say that governments that exist, or have existed, which call themselves 'communist' actually are not following communist ideology at all, and so to point out their flaws is irrelevant to communism itself. Really communism can only be discussed theoretically, at this point.
didn't read the rest huh? If I did use real world facts you'd say "that's no true communism" So i avoided your bullshit before you threw it Care to contribute to the discussion? -yuri
so then you.aren't going to.contribute to the threat with rational.discussion? I.made.some.pretty good arguments against.Communist theory and.you seem.unwilling (unable.more.like) to.counter them. I could prove communism bad with real.life examples but you'll just say they are not truely.Communist So I proved it wrong with logic. Guess you lose again -yuri
Only a liberal would say that people who believe in communism would argue communist russia and china weren't true communism?
You guys are assuming that s/he doesn't see (some) value in real world communism. That's a big assumption to make.
You didn't make any arguments and that you think you could "disprove" 100+ years of political theory with some crap you pulled off a youtube video just goes to show how delusional you are.
"Socialized medicine works on Sweden" Why is he bothering posting here if he isn't going to defend communism? Maybe he doesn't want to engage? Naw. If that were true why did he post here? -yuri
Yuri, how does one come to own land? How can anyone claim to OWN that which naturally, inherently exists on the planet? This very idea, that we can just own the planet, puts us at odds with nature. Try to think back. Humans started out basically animal-like. Civilization, and land-ownership, came much later. How did it start? It MUST HAVE started with some powerful group of people just for no rational reason whatsoever, CLAIMING to own some land that they just found. That is just the planet. It's just there, naturally. But, they claimed it, and would use violence against anyone who disputed their claim. And it got passed on in similar ways. Now we can just say, people already own this land, and ownership transfers through money. But that's already once we have accepted its establishment. Think back to how it must have originally been established. There is NO WAY it could have been legitimate. We've just come up with legitimate means of justifying and continuing that which originally started entirely illegitimately. Admittedly, this is just on one point, rather than communism at large...I haven't figured out what I wanted to say in this thread about communism in general yet.
There is no such thing as communism outside of theory. The United States is a Socialist country. Who pays for our roads, schools, postal service, armed forces, elderly healthcare, court systems, judges...etc, etc...We, the people collectively do...Society does. Do we live in a capitalist country? Sure we do...a socialist/capitalist hybrid, just like every other civilized Nation on the Planet except for the few that provide nothing to their citizens except what those citizens provide for themselves...we call those places shitholes. This armchair economic philosophy "I hate communism" is like saying " I hate fire...it burns" ...sure it does..if used foolishly, but if wisely used can save your life and make life better. A lot of what we are taught to "hate" is nothing more than ghosts created by those with the most to keep . ....telling ghost stories to an intellectually challenged mob who believe damn near anything if it is said often enough.
Because as a Communist my job is not to defend Communism from reactionaries and those opposed to my views. My job is to agitate the marginalized and dispossessed; those who have much to gain from Socialist leadership. Surely you'll claim some sad little "victory" for yourself because I refuse to waste time arguing on the internet; falsely assuming I can't back myself up (which I can, assuredly much better than you ever could). As for why I posted here in the first place: it's Thanksgiving and I've been drinking. I now see that was a mistake as I've already given you much more attention than you deserve. I would take you for a troll if I didn't already know you are actually as serious and uneducated as you are. And now I have nothing more to say to you.
The thing I like about communism is how it plunges societies into such abject poverty (except the typical inner circle, of course) and generally mucks up everyone's ability to function efficiently. Yep - can't beat it! Thinking of moving to North Korea as we speak.
The thing I like about communism is how people discuss things which are completely different from communism, call it communism, and then form their opinion on communism itself based on it. Communism means, BY DEFINITION, absolute equality, absolute abolition of heirarchy. So, if there is widespread poverty, 'except the inner circle,' it's by definition not communism. Why don't you move to my country? It's an anarchist society, where the government controls everything you do...I know the government controlling everything you do is by definition in opposition to anarchy, but I call it anarchist, so apparently that means it is.