I have seen the threads you are following in regards to white LEDs. The thing is, you can grow real nice plants with LEDs and CFLs, but you can also grow nice plants with your two 600 watt HIDs. Have you seen the potential of your two HIDs? Look up some results of your current lighting before you put out all that money and downgrade your system. As the lamps become mainstream and adopted as the new standard for LED configuration, I will be sure to check it out. But show me a link to a guy growing with white LEDs that is clearly outperforming other light mixes. The link you posted of white LEDs being used , did in fact harvest 253 grams (about nine ounces if my math is right) of nice bud using 1000 watt lamp. Lots of LEDs grows using that much power are doing well over twice that. Why did your two 600 watt HIDs not work out for you? Tossing money at the problem might not be the answer. It is very possible that you will invest a lot of money and still have the same issues. The lamp you currently have has proven to work and work well. Don't give up so quickly. Yes LEDs can grow real nice bud, and you can find lots of folks taking pictures of them doing just that. I have seen what two 600 watt HIDs can do, Pounds per harvest of quality smoke is very common.
Heat and bulb replacement cost reduction are the two major thorns in my side. No complaints on my current setup other than cost of operation. The energy company hit our area with an 18% increase so... This is why I am trolling along and hoping to find a nugget. The pictures of the plants growing under the White LEDs are compelling. However, a true side by side grow would be great to see. -PG
As I stated before, you wont save any electricity per pound of bud using LEDs. Yes you will save on bulb replacement. How many harvests have you had and how many bulbs have you replaced? By the time you recoup your cost on bulbs vs. the extra price of LEDs we will be growing with lasers or something. I would fix my grow room proper. Good LED growers will tell you that you still need ventilation. Especially if you want to run the equivalent of two 600 watt HIDs. Our ventilation kicked in every ten minutes running the 1000 watt solar storm. No matter what light you choose, make sure you don't skimp on good ventilation. Even the average grower can out think the heating problems of indoor growing. Spend your money on the real problem.
The thing is... I AM $pending money on the real problem. In the last five years there have been maybe 6-7 changes @ ~$100 on average per bulb x8 bulbs (getting to be expensive). The ventilation is not an issue. The cost of operating my cooling fans (passive circuit) and bulb replacements are digging into my bottom line though. I going to be optimistic and hope the status quo will be challenged... SOON. Technology is always improving. Before digital ballasts, there were magnetic. Before the internet there was... MTV because "Video Killed the Radio Star". There are HPS and MH bulbs now that are designed cover more of the spectrum that our plants benefit from. I believe that as the demand for such technology increases, the industry will continue to develop products that will render current technology obsolete. If one compares early man's wheel to a modern wheel, one can see that we are constantly reinventing the wheel, replacing inferior versions for more effective solutions. I am not trying to start a debate on what works best. Right now, the HPS MH combo is kicking ass. There is new technology emerging and I am HOPING (pretty, pretty please with sugar on top and fingers crossed) that it will not only improve the way we grow but enhance the quality of the product we work so hard to produce. Boy, I can't wait till the day. -PG
I want a new and better way of growing weed more than anyone. I have been testing and watching LEDs closely for years. I'm not closed minded or the guy who still thinks the world is flat. I am very aware that things change and I welcome them. No need to tell me how innovation has change the way we do things. Sorry, I read your last post wrong (thought you replaced bulbs 6 times a year). How many plants are you growing and in what size space? It is your money, do what makes you feel good with it. LEDs will grow some nice weed (I have done it myself). My point is, the amount of bud you can potentially get from two 600 watt HIDs, should pay for any bulb replacement and fan cycling. The best bulb I can find (the one I use as well) $55 http://www.amazon.com/Lumatek-600W-High-Par-Output-HPS/dp/B0055F6FF4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1409501046&sr=8-6&keywords=lumatek+600 Just to let you know, I do grow with LEDs and have had lots of good harvests using them. I would say they are very close watt for watt in output. Just HIDs will grow taller fuller plants if room height is not an issue. Just don't tell me about a HID equivalent wattage and huge power savings. The bulb replacement issue is real. LEDs do run cooler but do require good ventilation (at 1000+ watts you better have a good sound ventilation system). In five years will you be happy that you spent all the money on LEDs? Some bud I grew with LEDs (7-ounces from one plant).
Sorry, Rumple, if it sounded condescending. It was an attempt to make my position absolutely transparent to everyone here and not directed at you (separate paragraphs, wink). To answer your question, the current set up is as follows: 5x5 Tent Veg, Clone & Mothers 16 Bulb T5HO and two small "early" led panels for the Babies 5x5 Tent Veg/ Pre Flower 1000w MH (active and passive ventilation) 5x10 Tent Flower 6x 600w MH/HPS in Cool Tubes (active and passive ventilation) 5x10 Tent Flower 2x 1000w HPS in Raptor XXXL Hoods (active and passive ventilation) In Flowering, there are either 9 plants or 4 larger ones for every 5x5 area (depending on the strain) Each tent utilizing HID uses an 8" fan for the passive ventilation (lamp cooling only) and a temp controlled fan to vent the grow space. Great looking Medicine, Rumple! I believe we are on the same page. Are you still testing lights? -PG
I have not found any lamp I want to test at the moment. I was finishing up the grow machine test for Golden Grow and have not had a chance to post the results (done in my personal grow).
http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1229301-complete-led-setup.html/page-102 The member (DDP I believe) who yielded 253g was growing under a Mars II 900 for 6 weeks, then a Mars II 1200. http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1229301-complete-led-setup.html/page-103 Weed Dude posted his results from his grow under these new white LEDs and got... "Grand Total : 558.6 grams ( 19.95 oz's) OR 1.2468 LBS of SMOKE- ABLE HIGH Quality Bud!!" This is what got my attention... http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1317804-white-light-led-revolution.html/page-3 The plants undoubtedly prefer the white LED lights according to the picture. He has since switched to these new white spectrum LED panels. This is why I am curious. -PG
The 253g harvest you are referring to is for his Mars1200 rated at 565w, I think, so correct me if I'm wrong. This would give .45g/w., which is your average HID grower's yield. That was also his very first grow. The current 1000w white spectrum is his second ever grow. .45g/w for the first grow is an excellent yield for a beginner by any standards. The current 1000w SolarSpec white spectrum is only in week 3, I believe, so we have a while before the results are back. HID's yield potential is a given, and there's no denying it's proven for years now. The debate here is if the current LED technology is a viable HID replacement or alternative yet. The answer is yes, but not at a ludicrous 30-50% of HID wattage as claimed by a lot of these so-called leading names in the business. It's more like 80%+(depending on the makes, because some are more efficient than others) of HID wattage to match it's yield, but will surpass it's quality in terms of density and quality. One of the main advantages of LED is it's ability to pin point to the exact spectrum band; therefore, bands like uv-b and blues, which are known to stimulate resin production can be added in the right amount to achieve the desired effect. This is based on my own experience only. Factors such as strain, spectrum, actual wattage, grower's skill, etc. can also have an effect on the final outcome. Another possible reason why they push the low power requirement is the prices they're asking for dollar/watt is already high, so if they recommend the actual required wattage to get the job done properly, it would make it cost prohibitive. If given everything the same, and of equal wattage, LED will beat HID by 10-20% in my experience. This is based on high-quality LED equipped with quality secondary lens with a minimum of 1000umol+ at canopy PAR intensity. The light better be clocking at least 1500umol@12" to be on the safe side, and a minimum of 40w/sqft. as recommended. The main advantage of LED is the little amount of heat they generate compared to HID. The savings will more be in terms of bulb replacements, ventilation electricity and equipment costs. The other nice thing is you can leave home in peace, not worrying about that mini-sun. I think it's not yet accepted by the commercial growers is from so much hype, and bad experience that the industry as a whole bears responsibility for their disinformation and false advertising thru the years based on greed.
Every LED light we tested tends to be about 80% less as effective as current HIDs. We have had lots of problems with taller plants (over 4' tall) and anything not real close to the lamp source. We can effectively cover more grow room space with HIDs (main reason no commercial grower wants LEDs). The quality from LEDs on a whole was below par due to loose bud (anything not directly under the lamp). Commercial growers are't using LEDs because they are not current or smart enough to see through bad advertising, it's because they make more money with HIDs. More quality bud in less time using less power. With that said,,,, I have seen (and had) some great LED harvests. They tend to perform well in small spaces with short plants.
Hey Rumple! Yep I did the HID route....Just couldn't handle the heat issues and worrying about having a mini sun in the house while I am away. Switched to LED's a few years ago... Just recently switched to White Spectrum LED's a couple of grows ago. If I calculate cost of bulb replacements and yield. The LED will match or even beat out a HID system in cost.over the long run. My plants are not short as you can see. We netted over a pound... Running about 700 - 750 watts. The heat was very manageable. I actually ran my inline fan at 1/2 speed. We never could do that running a 600 watt HID bulb. Doesn't appear to be a downgrade to me...
Nope I run LED in the winter at night and never had to heat the room (Can you say Polar Vortex ). They actually produce just the right amount of heat where I don't even need to run my inline fan....Check out my current grow at http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1317804-white-light-led-revolution.html?view=getnewpost . I do run in tents. This current grow I threw in a lot of different variables but still looks like I am going to have a good yield!
not sure if this has been talked about yet but a lot of people seem to think an LED rated for half the wattage of an HID can produce the same results and it just cant let me tell you why.., LED lights are rated for wattage based on the lights they use on the unit.. if you used 100 5 watt LED diodes you would have a 500 watt LED light which a lot of people think could replace a 1000w HID but it never would because that unit doesn't even actually have a draw of 500 watts... typical 500w LED only draws like 400. Long story short you need an LED of an equal wattage rating, but it will draw a little less than an HID if you test its actual draw, You also want to make sure the diodes are 5 watts each and know exactly how many diodes there are at which color (nanometer) of light. some LED companies will just say "650-660" well thats not good enough you should look for a company that has the exact nanometer of color and make sure you get the exact colors you want. Also note most LEDs (if not all?) don't come with a decent amount of UV light in them (of course HID don't either). your grow room can be supplemented with UV light with cheap reptile UV lights producing UVB and UVA light... UV light is proven to increase trichome production and potency and if we think about it that is what we are trying to produce... not plant matter. so people need to concern themselves with proper UV light levels before anything.. its the #1 mistake I see even "master growers" making. ps the rule of thumb for UV is 10% of the wattage you have in other lights, and make sure you use the tube CFLs and not the small spiral lightbulb CFLs because they disperse light better.
We just got through testing the brand new light from California Light Works SolarStorm 880. I am sure they don't think they are making an old fashioned lamp. Because I have not tested the lamp you use does not mean we are not current. If the lamp you are using out performs all others, everyone will switch to it. It is just a matter of time. Lots of HID growers can yield a pound from a 400 watt lamp. I understand the need to defend/justify a purchase. We all want to think we are making the right choice with our hard earned cash. It has been the case with LED buyers from day one. Same things being said (bulb usage, heat and quality). I can find you threads five years old that have people defending the new LED lamp they just bought. When they are truly better, we will all be using them. No one wants to run hot lamps that have to be replaced every year. Be happy with your lamp and grow some nice bud.
I'm not here to defend my purchases as I've had my fair share of losers in the last 6yrs.of LED, starting with the R/B panels with it's crazy claims. I respect u've had your fair share of LED, but to say that HID is 80% more effective than LED makes me scratch my head and say," based on what?". How did u arrive at the 80% efficiency? I wouldn't be here defending if I was not getting results, and for what? To make a generalize comment like that is not appreciated, sir. The idea here is not to defend our purchases, but share facts and results, not speculation of one's intention. I agree with every point u made so far, with the exception of the new crop high-powered white LED that surpasses HID PAR intensity by 30% (2550umol@12" LED vs. 1800umol@12" HPS), along with a much more efficient spectrum. Yield and density is directly related to the amount of intensity applied. Perfect example of this is the HPS spectrum. Though a crappy, lop-sided spectrum that peaks in the green and yellow, and yet, can still manage to get excellent results. It's also better than the MH, not because of spectrum, since the MH is a much better spectrum for photosynthesis, but because the HPS puts out more lumens. Intensity is everything, hence why HID is so effective. It's secret to success is in it's name. Intensity sets the pace for the rate of growth and also photosynthesis. The more applied, the more growth and yield, period. For you to assume that without testing that a light capable of 30% more PAR intensity and better spectrum is some still inferior to the HPS is quite judgemental, sir. The idea here is to share and learn to make us better greenthumbers. At least that's my intention, anyways.
That was true until recently Some are in BMW $ range these days The BML SPYDR 600 I have on loan (MSRP $999) covers 3+ x3+. Seems like a lot of money, but amortized after the 4th grow, it starts paying dividends I contacted BML last March. They offered 2 separate 600s, one for veg, one for flower. I convinced them thai I could select my own spectrums so that ONE S600 would work well for both, thus redcing the cost of entry by 50%. It is ~95% white diodes with a few 450s and 625s (probably not needed). I did a thread on another popular site and got the business from those programmed into RB. Well, I harvestd almost a pound with 2 plants (2 different phenos) of Med-Man Silver Skunk Bx1. One was 4ft+ Mexican that packs a wallop, the other a 2.5ft squatty, but tastey Blueberry Cheesecake, that produced half as much, but is delicious I am in high anticipation of receiving a couple Solar Spec panels for my upcoming grow. SS lowers the entry in a couple ways 1. A lot more umoles/m at a lower price 2. The designer developed systems of 4 panels to fill out a tent, thereby increasing perimeter umoles The buyer can start with a single panel, then add the others as $$$ permits I think there will be a nice discount on the 4th panel
Part of the problem is understanding that watts are not the be all end all. The parameter mj growers need to be focused on is umoles/m^/sec. Roughly translated, it is the intensity of light one sqm of the canopy gets every second. When growing in greater than 2 x 2 space, the umoles beyond 2ft^ will make or break an LED panels usefulness Ergo, a 260w high umole design could trounce a 600w poorly executed led design
so rumple...please give me the insight on why the hydrogrow led lights are bad. a friend is offering to sell me one used and id like to know if it is worth the money. im only paying about 180 for a 300 watt led light, and i dont have any proof of how his grows went. im hoping you can give me some helpful answers as to why they arent very good.