Bhagavad Gita

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Thejourney318, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. #1 Thejourney318, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014
    I recently have decided to read through the Bhagavad Gita, using Stephen Mitchell's translation. I have grown intrigued by him due to his translation of the Tao Te Ching. I wish I would have taken notes from the beginning, but I didn't start until later in. So I will start out with a general summary and explanation of my understanding of some of the main ideas. And then later I will add on with quotes and commentary. Anyone is free to jump in in any way, your own thoughts on the bhagavad gita, your thoughts on my thoughts, etc.
     
    Whatsoever you do, do it in a total, undivided way. Do this moment to moment, according to what circumstances require; but once the action is complete, let go of it completely. Have no concern with the result of actions. Yet still, act, and act fully. Let the action be complete in and of itself, take no mind of what will come as a result. This is part of a broader philosophy of detachment, and losing desire.
     
    Everything is always changing. But there is one constant in all the diverse experiences. This is the Self. When there is suffering, there is the Self; when there is joy, there is the Self. And yet the Self stands above both suffering and joy; he is equally present in the midst of all such dualities. Krishna calls the Self the Knower. He is the one who knows all that is experienced. It is a point within the Being that is Krishna. Everything that exists arises within His Being, and then dissolves back into his Being. Everything resides within the body of Krishna, and he resides in the center of every Being, as the Self.
     
    You should learn to keep your mind focused on the Self, on the Supreme. This helps facilitate the process of detachment. As previously demonstrated, the Self is above, and equally present within, all dualities, all manifestations of 'this and that.' If you keep your mind focused on the Self, you will see its constancy regardless of internal and external specifics. The Self is changeless amidst change. And this is really the path and goal. To let your mind be completely enveloped by the Self, and to then realize the state of Being that is Krishna's.

     
  2. How many pages is your copy of Bhagavad Gita?
     
  3. #3 Thejourney318, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014
    Chapter 12
    "The same to both friend and foe...
    suffering or joy, untroubled."
     
    Notice, friend and foe exist. Suffering and joy exist. But the Self exists exactly the same whether joy or suffering is present. The Self is totally undisturbed by suffering. Identify with the Self.
     
    Chapter 13
    "The body is called the field,
    Arjuna; the one who watches
    whatever happens within it -
    wise men call him the Knower.
     
    I am the Knower of the field
    in every body, Arjuna;
    genuine knowledge means knowing
    both the field and its Knower."
     
    There is the Knower, and that which is known. The Knower can never be known. What is it that is looking at the objects, whether physical or mental? Think about it, and these are just more objects, more known, of the field. You cannot look at it. It is the looking!
     
    Chapter 13
    "('it' is)outside yet within all beings,
    motionless, always moving,
    subtle beyond comprehension,
    far yet nearer than near."
     
    "He who sees that all actions
    are performed by Nature alone
    and thus that the self is not
    the doer - that man sees truly."
     
    Chapter 14
    "When a man sees clearly that there is
    no doer besides the gunas
    and knows what exists beyond them,
    he can enter my state of being."
     
    There are forces which set all that occurs into motion. These are impersonal. You don't do anything. The forces of nature act themselves out, whether within you or without you. You are not the doer, you are the knower. There is no doer. Creating a phantom-doer, and then identifying with it, is the reason why the Self, the knower, is not known and identified with.
     
  4. Well, the actual Bhagavad Gita itself is 157 pages. In total, the book is 223.
     
  5. Krishnas self is the very same as no self in buddhism.
     
  6. I think so. Although does definitely seem to have the idea of there being a sort of 'person' underlying everything. But this 'person,' Krishna, exists stripped beyond anything which you might call your self, or identify with as a separate self. This aligns with some interpretations of Buddha's teachings on no(t)-self. There are sutra's in which Buddha says something to the effect of, 'my doctrine of no(t)-self is like a medicine, used to remove erroneous notions of the Self. And yet when these erroneous notions are removed, the True Self shines through.' At some level it could perhaps be equated to the Buddha-Nature, but Krishna seems to stress the idea of this underlying essence as being like a 'person,' although totally transcendental to all being and non-being, and therefore time and space, even creation and dissolution.
     
  7. Ah. I have a book about it, it's about 500 or so pages, with a lot of commentary and such. It's "Bhagavad Gita, As it is."
     
  8. #8 Thejourney318, Aug 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2014
    I completed, and am now restarting it. I am going to write down significant quotes better, and take notes. Here is what I wrote on chapter 2, chapter 1 is really just setting the stage. There was quite a lot of significant material in this chapter, which is why this post will be limited to that chapter. Some things I will have some commentary on, others will just be quoted. If something says what needs to be said directly, in a good way, why force some additional words on it? It says what it needed to say.

    "Never was there a time
    when I did not exist, or you,
    or these kings; nor will there come
    a time when we cease to be.
    ...
    Physical sensations - cold
    and heat, pleasure and pain -
    are transient: they come and go;
    so bear them patiently, Arjuna.

    Only the man who is unmoved
    by any sensations, the wise man
    indifferent to pleasure, to pain,
    is fit for becoming deathless.
    ...
    The presence that pervades the universe
    is imperishable, unchanging,
    beyond both is and is not:
    how could it ever vanish?

    These bodies come to an end;
    but that vast embodied Self
    is ageless, fathomless, eternal.
    ...

    "Be beyond all opposites, Arjuna:
    anchored in the real, and free
    from all thoughts of wealth and comfort."

    The real is what exists without needing to be upheld conceptually. It is what is without beginning and without end. Anything temporal is irrelevant from the perspective of the real.
    ...
    "You have a right to your actions,
    but never to your actions' fruits.
    Act for the action's sake.
    And do not be attached to inaction.

    Self-possessed, resolute, act
    without any thought of results,
    open to success or failure.
    This equanimity is yoga."

    He is not teaching inactivity. He is teaching total activity, when the need for activity arises. Do not do it half-heartedly. Be so complete in your actions that it is like leaving it all out on the table, you did it completely and can now let go. No concern with what will come as a result. You have done your work.
    ...
    "The wise man lets go of all
    results, whether good or bad,
    and is focused on the action alone.
    Yoga is skill in actions.

    The wise man whose insight is firm,
    relinquishing the fruits of action,
    is freed from the bondage of rebirth
    and attains the place beyond sorrow."

    Karma is transcended. And how? Karma, in part, means intention. What you are trying to achieve with the actions you do. When you are not trying to achieve anything, just doing actions for the action's sake, no karma is created. Eventually, all your karma is extinguished, and you attain Nirvana, which is the extinguishing of a flame.
    ...
    "Indifferent to scriptures, your mind
    stands by itself, unmoving,
    absorbed in deep meditation.
    This is the essence of yoga.
    ...
    When a man gives up all desires
    that emerge from the mind, and rests
    contented in the Self by the Self,
    he is called a man of firm wisdom.

    He whose mind is untroubled
    by any misfortune, whose craving
    for pleasures has disappeared,
    who is free from greed, fear, anger,

    who is unattached to all things,
    who neither grieves nor rejoices
    if good or if bad things happen -
    that man is a man of firm wisdom."
    ...

    "But the man who is self-controlled,
    who meets the objects of the senses
    with neither craving nor aversion,
    will attain serenity at last.

    In serenity, all his sorrows
    disappear at once, forever;
    when his heart has become serene,
    his understanding is steadfast."

    Being witness to the actual sensations that occur, without mental overlay. Seeing things as they are, without division through preference, without craving and aversion, is the path to liberation.
    ...

    "The man whom desires enter
    as rivers flow into the sea,
    filled yet always unmoving -
    that man finds perfect peace."

    The Self is unmoved amidst everything. Everything that exists may flow into the Self, but the Self is unmoved by it. When things pass from being to non-being, they simply dissolve into the Self
     
  9. The truth contained in the bhagavad gita is supreme! We should rejoice in partaking of such knowledge.
     
  10. The truth is truth. These words, these concepts, they are like the fluttering of a thousand wings. Never in one place, always striking a different beat, yet still carrying these birds through the air.

    What is beyond the idea of existence and non existence. None is contradictory to the other. All are descriptions of the one pure, supreme reality.
     
  11. #11 Thejourney318, Aug 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2014
    Chapter 3
     
    "No one, not even for an instant,
    can exist without acting; all beings
    are compelled, however unwilling,
    by the three strands of Nature called gunas.

    He who controls his actions
    but lets his mind dwell on sense-objects
    is deluding himself and spoiling
    his search for the deepest truth."

    If the mind dwells on external objects, it is distracted from the Self. The Self cannot be realized so long as your mind is focused on externals.
    ...
    "Do any actions you must do,
    since actions is better than inaction;
    even the existence of your body
    depends on necessary actions.
    ...
    Without concern for results,
    perform the necessary action;
    surrendering all attachments,
    accomplish life's highest good.
    ...
    In all the three worlds, Arjuna,
    there is nothing I need to do,
    nothing I must attain
    and yet I engage in action."

    The real goal is losing attachment, craving, and aversion. It's not so much about what you do or not do. Even 'not doing anything' is doing something. And even if your action is to 'sit and do nothing,' there is still activity going on within your body, sustaining your life. Inaction does not truly exist. You simply lose craving and aversion for activity, and lose all lust for results. You, in fact, lose all thought of what will come from the action, or of anything besides the action itself. The must is emphasized in 'do any actions you must do,' implying you should lose desire-driven actions, and instead simply do whatever you must, due to the circumstances you find yourself in.
    ...
    "The wise man does not unsettle
    the minds of the ignorant; quietly
    acting in the spirit of yoga,
    he inspires them to do the same."

    Trying to intellectually convince people of some position you believe to be correct is irrelevant. The ultimate aim is a calming of the mind. Upsetting other's minds is pointless. Living 'in the spirit of yoga' is the greatest way to spread it.
    ...
    "Actions are really performed
    by the working of the three gunas;
    but a man deluded by the I-sense
    imagines, "I am the doer."

    The wise man knows that when objects
    act on the senses, it is merely
    the gunas acting on the gunas;
    thus, he is unattached."

    Everything that happens within you and without you, is the forces of nature. You cannot 'do' anything besides the forces of nature. Nothing can happen which is not those forces. Seeing this, you are unattached, because you are separate from the whole world of happenings. You are the one who is aware of the happenings, but you have nothing to do with them.
    ...
    "Arjuna said:
    What is it that drives a man
    to an evil action, Krishna,
    even against his will,
    as if some force made him do it?

    The Blessed Lord said:
    That force is desire, it is anger,
    arising from the guna called rajas;
    deadly and all-devouring,
    that is the enemy here.

    As a fire is obscured by smoke,
    as a mirror is covered by dust,
    as a fetus is wrapped in its membrane,
    so wisdom is obscured by desire.
    ...
    Desire dwells in the senses,
    the mind, and the understanding;
    in all these it obscures wisdom
    and perplexes the embodied Self.

    Therefore you must first control
    your senses, Arjuna; then
    destroy this evil that prevents you
    from ever knowing the truth.
    ...
    Knowing the Self, sustaining
    the self by the Self, Arjuna,
    kill the difficult-to-conquer
    enemy called desire."

    Here Krishna cuts straight to the point of desire as being the root of suffering. Desire is always for something which is by its nature impermanent. Desire is thus incompatible with true, lasting happiness. When desire is lost, the mind is stilled, and external influence is removed, the Self is realized, and this is the highest peace and happiness. It is not dependent on any conditions, and it cannot be taken away. It is the state which the mind naturally finds itself when these temporal conditions are removed from its own field of awareness.
     
  12. #12 Boats And Hoes, Aug 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2014
     
    Does non-existence exist or does non-existence not exist? ;)
     
     
    "Even the inner and sensible intuition of our mind (as object of consciousness) which is represented as being determined by the succession of different states in time, is not the self proper, as it exists in itself -- that is, is not the transcendental subject -- but only an appearance that has been given to the sensibility of this, to us unknown, being." - Kant
     
  13. #13 Boats And Hoes, Aug 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2014
     
    .. and yet, you, maybe a Hindu (I dunno), and other Hindus, desire to liberate yourself from the fetters of suffering, right? I mean, if not, are you not striving to cease suffering or karma? Are your strivings without an ultimate aim or motive?
     
    One doesn't "lose" desire like you do a cell phone or some random object, rather, one assuages insatiable desire; that is to say, one acts and wills to rid themselves of lustful desires.
     
    Desire in-itself is not bad or to be condemned, but it being untamed is...
     
  14. Both...! And Neither!
     
  15. Nothing is good or bad in-itself. Losing desire is like breaking down the walls of a damn. Desire is like an all-consuming flame. Fire is not satisfied by fuel.

    Also, you are confusing Hinduism with Buddhism. The goal of Hinduism is moksha, and that can mean many different things depending on what school you look to. Of which Hinduism has many.
     
  16. #16 Thejourney318, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
    This is an area of overlap between at least some Hindu schools of thought and Buddhism. The Buddha tackled this problem. If you are trying to lose desire, isn't that just a new desire? Well, yes. He said there is a desire which keeps one trapped in the cycles of samsara, and a desire which leads to liberation. The second type is temporary. Temporarily, you make the desire to lose desire your only desire. Eventually, even this will fall away, and when that happens you are liberated.
     
  17. #17 Boats And Hoes, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
     
    ... and this state of liberation is permanent and ever-lasting, that is, is it in-itself irrevocable, or is it impermanent and transient as the Buddhists claim that everything is impermanent? Meaning, is this liberated state indefeasible, or must it be maintained and continually honed?
     
  18. #18 Boats And Hoes, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
    It's not like, "hey, I'm liberated, therefore, I'll always be liberated, now I can do whatever I want without the possibility of demerging back into the fetters of this world."
     
    Is it? Or does one have to continually strive and will, that is, recurrently desire, to be, and remain, liberated?
     
  19. Liberation is beyond desire. There's no striving of any sort. It is a state beyond the three gunas. The state of liberation is itself the fourth guna.
     

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