So I bought a house about a year and a half ago, and the previous owners totally trashed the property. It's been a huge cleanup effort. But they also left some furniture behind in the house. Most of it was junk that I've moved out and burned, but there was a fairly decent cedar wardrobe in the attic. It screams grow cab to me, so that's what I'm gonna do. I tried moving it out of the attic by myself yesterday and failed, so I asked my boyfriend to help me move it tonight. I have the whole week off and need something to do, so this may be my project this week. It already has a bar for hanging clothes across the top, so that'll be what I hang my light from. I have a 400w MH/HPS to put in there. I'm thinking about making it a flower only cab, though, since I have another closet that would make a nice T5 veg set up. The wardrobe is about 66" tall, 24" deep, 30" wide. Enough space to flower two plants with a little training? Here it is in the attic. The plan at the moment is to fix the door that fell off, put up Mylar inside, light proof, and add some PC fans I have kicking around to the back for ventilation. Probably going to put passive intake holes in the bottom since this seems logical to me to help with light leaks. I also have a homemade carbon filter somewhere from a past grow, but was thinking about trying Ona since the filter really fucked with my CFMs last time I used it. I was going to paint the inside flat white, but it's such nice cedar I don't know if I can permanently ruin it (other than holes for fans and stuff). I don't know. I don't have any real attachment to it, so maybe I'll paint it. Anyway, follow along for the ride and I'd love any suggestions people have!
Unless you have an air-cooled hood you're gonna have heat problems, especially if you're using pc fans.
Heat is definitely something I'm concerned about....I only have experience growing in more "open" spaces where temperatures were a little more stable. That's why I want to talk through this build as I go, instead of doing it how I think it should be and then being disappointed. I don't currently have an air cooled hood, just a bat wing. I just went on a digging adventure and can't find the fans I was referencing, so I guess ventilation is open to suggestion. I'm planning on keeping the ballast outside the cab, so hopefully that will help with heat a bit. It's also dimmable, so I could run it at 200w to keep the heat down some, too.
Read through the ventilation thread again, and did the work from this post on air cooling. If V = Q / (P C dT) My set up is: V = .4kw / (1.2kg/m3 * 1.02kJ/kgK * 3C) V = .4 / 3.672 V = 0.06277 m3/s m3/s * 2119 = CFM CFM = 0.06277 * 2119 CFM = 133 Let's give it a 20% margin of error, and call it 160 CFM So, I take this to mean that two 80 CFM fans would be enough to conduct air cooling in a cab running a 400W light. Yes? Here's where it gets tricky, the ambient temperature of my house drops significantly in the winter, to about 58F. That would drop the CFM need to 43, or 51 with the margin of error. I think I'd want to wire the fans to separate plugs so I could cut it down to one when the temp in my house drops.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JQ14F8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 get something like this and hook up a dimmer switch. That fan with a carbon scrubber should be enough to cool your cabinet sufficiently.
Like I said before, I definitely want to do this right...sometimes I think I should start a journal and title it "Things I Learned the Hard Way"...but this needs to be on the upper end of stealth, so I'm worried about noise. I know that an inline fan is the "right" way to go, but I'm seeing PC fans in the 60-80 CFM range running around 20 dbA. Is this totally unrealistic? My knowledge of adding decibels, if I were to go the route of multiple smaller fans, is that total sound (T) = dbA 10log^10(N), where N is the number of equivalent sound sources I have. So, 4 60 CFM 20 dbA fans would run at 26 dbA and could generate 240 CFM. No ducting to worry about, whatever fan setup I go with will be mounted directly to the back of cab at the top. This fan advertises 60.9 CFM at 16 dbA, and with a $5 rebate right now, costs $3.57. Total decibel level would be like 22...should be inaudible through a closed door. Pretty sure my ballast runs louder than these fans. And for $14? Don't know if I can find a 22 dbA 240 CFM inline fan for that kind of scratch.
Well, the wardrobe hasn't made it out of the attic yet, due to an overworked zombie boyfriend...but he promises tomorrow he'll help me move it. In the mean time, i went ahead and ordered those fans, because $14 seemed too good to pass up. They'll be here tomorrow, too. I need something to do, so I've been researching light traps for the intake and exhaust. The doors will be easy to light proof since they have a routed out lip with a "panel" that snugly fills the hole and a lip that covers the outside. Some simple weather stripping around the inside of the door frame should be all that's necessary there. But for the intake and exhaust, I was really dreading having to do the PVC or cardboard box dance. Sorry to those who use them, but I find them terribly ugly and obtrusive. Luckily I stumbled onto this thread over at icmag.com, and I think it's fucking genius, and beautiful to boot. I'm going to try it with black foam core and hot glue, should be cheap and go together quick. The fans that I got are 140mm (~5.5"), and I got 4 of them. That gives me an exhaust area of 95 sq in total over 4 holes. I want to double the size of the exhaust for the intake (right? stop me now before I cut holes if that's wrong...). That gives me 190.08 sq in total intake area needed. I'm planning on doing a long rectangular intake along the bottom towards the front that will be approximately 6"x30". This should give me airflow across the cab that looks something like this first line drawing (side view), where the orange blob is my light, the plant is (hopefully) obvious, and arrows indicate airflow. The other option is to put the intake along the bottom of the back (want it to be totally stealth looking from front and sides), but I'm worried the exhaust would pull air straight up the back and not provide the cooling/fresh air through the canopy I'm looking for. The second line drawing depicts that scenario. If I go that route, another fan inside the cab to move air around will probably be necessary, but I'd rather keep it uncluttered if at all possible. Thoughts? Am I thinking correctly here?
That attic is screaming out for some mylar and a couple ov 1000w lights or a nice tent or two you could save your self a lot of heat issues and the plants would love you for it ..
Yes but the attic is also calling for a 3rd floor master suite! Plumbing is already run up and waiting. It's gonna be sick. But I've been thinking about tossing in a grow room under the gable directly opposite of where this wardrobe was sitting. As for heat issues, that'd take some work up there. It gets up to 110+ up there during the summer 😦
im just pulling ya leg "trip" i would love a loft that size but you can keep the heat pic "A" looks much better than "b" and thats what i would do in your box . what light are you planning on using ? hps/mh put quite a lot of heat out . t5s / cfls a lot less .
That thread you linked for the light traps is a great design, scrubninja is a genius. I use his design for light traps all the time. I personally use the plastic edging with foam pieces glued in between. I find the plastic so much easier to work with...and it stays stable as long as you keep the vents less then 12" wide...otherwise they need a middle support piece. Making one out of metal would be the way to go if you need to build a nice long 32" one or so like you've planned. I have a page in my thread somewhere of my process of making the light traps..I can direct link if you're interested. If you're really concerned about stealth...for a fan the best way to go is a panasonic whisper bathroom fan. You'll find a similar amazing thread at IC about them. I've successfully cooled a 400w hps with one and a 400w cmh...with filter attached. They are dead silent (.3sones/quieter then a pc fan) and can handle some static pressure. I would personally hang a panasonic 6" fan with a 6" long filter inside the cabinet, above the light....I also have a grow in an armoire with that setup. I haven't yet upgraded to a whisperfan but that's next on the list when I have the $. There's only certain models that have the .3 sones rating.. the 6" /150cfm model is #FV-15VQ5 and the 4"/110cfm model is # FV-11VQ5. I highly recommend these fans if noise is a concern...I think lowes and walmart both have them available to order online (I researched these recently ) for the cheapest prices. I've purchased 3 of these style fans for growing. The first time I hooked one up I thought it was broken until I felt the rush of air coming out! A is the better option for airflow...you've got it right. Another option to equalize the airflow is to create a false bottom inside that rises up about 4" from the floor. You can then drill holes in it all around the edges to get an even distribution of incoming air. Hope that made sense...it's similar to how I did a speaker grow box I made...and the armoire. Is smell a concern? 400w of buds will create a damn good stink....
I'm probably overstating the need for stealth by a touch. I mostly need it to LOOK stealth, you know, front and sides of cabinet unadulterated, bottom and back are fair game, and no light glow during the hours lights are on but it's dark outside. Good to hear from someone who is using the light trap design! I'm really taken by it and can't wait to get it in place. I've looked at some journals that use the false floor design and have definitely considered it. Given the intake size I need, that may be the way to go. Could the false bottom be floating? I'm thinking drill the intake holes I need in the bottom - this allows more smaller diameter holes all over the floor, then cut a piece of plywood to be 1.5" smaller on all sides than the floor of the cab, which the inside measurement is 30x20, put a few 1x2 slats underneath to raise it up 3/4" and just set it on the drilled out bottom. Am I tracking right? How's it do for light leaks? More worried about light getting out than in in that situation. Paint the actual bottom of the wardrobe and the underside of the false floor and slats black and top of the false floor white? Also, thanks for the input on fans. Those fans are epic quiet for the amount of air they move! For now I'm gonna stick with my $14 worth of fans and see how they do, but I'm thinking come tax time I know what I should be looking for! They should be here today, so we'll see what 4 of them running sounds like, but as long as it's no louder than the other ambient noises in my house, it shouldn't be an issue. I have a window fan running in the room the cab will be in as well, so I can't imagine 22 dbA being noticeable over that for now. The real test will be when I cycle the cab to see if temps stay where I need them. As for smell, this will become more of an issue as I close my house up in colder weather. No central air means everything is open all the time all summer. I'm confident an Ona block plus windows open will be fine until mid September or so, I already use Ona to combat pet smells from the cats & rabbit and I barely have to crack the lid to freshen the whole upstairs. No neighbors anywhere close enough to smell anything coming out the windows. We'll see what happens as I close things up this fall.
your false bottom can be a floating style like you described, but I've always felt a design like this would trap dirt in the bottom and be harder to keep clean. When measuring out the holes, keep in mind that 4x 1" holes is not the same as a 4" hole...I think you got the math handled though I think if those pc fans can push the cfm they're rated at then you might be ok on temps. Keep in mind you need to light trap those as well. PC fans let quite a bit of light through. ..and with those light traps account for about a 20% loss in airflow when calculating size. It's much better to make em a little oversized..it's alot easier to just cover part of them with a piece of tape or something to make them smaller...but you can't make them bigger.
I was thinking just the opposite on the floating bottom...I was hoping it'd be easier to keep clean if I could just lift the bottom out in between grows and scrub it down. But yeah, I got the math covered. I was a science nerd in high school and college...my "adult" job doesn't allow much room for scientific shit, so whenever I get to bust out the mad math skills I get excited. Total intake area needs to be 190 sq in. Math happens and I get 6 x 6" diameter holes in the floor. How's yours set up? Cut the intake size you need out in one rectangle and install false floor above that? Is your false floor floating or permanent? I like the idea of being able to take the floor out to wipe everything down. I was planning on light trapping the fans the same way I was going to do the intake, fans on the inside of the cab and light traps on the outside. Only 20% loss in airflow for the traps? Shit, I was accounting for a 40% loss! Sounds like I should be good.
lol I dunno the exact loss in air flow with the vents...that was just a guess. There might be a more accurate number in the scrubninja thread. here's a quicklink of how I build mine The false floor in the speakerbox I made is removable...let me dig up a pic..here's a post of the build that shows the design of the floor. It's of course much smaller scale then yours, same idea. In the armoire that I'm using I just drilled a bunch of 1" holes all around the edge of the bottom floor panel...I actually removed the floor so I could get 6" more height though. ...come to think of it I have the same design in my little 63w led dresser too.
Fans showed up today, possibly one of the sketchiest deliveries I've ever had simply because the "FedEx" truck that delivered it was an unmarked white 15 passenger van. Wtf? Guy was in uniform and had my box, but I get a lot of shit FedEx from Amazon Prime and have always had a legit marked FedEx truck. Maybe it's because I'm rural. Whatever. Anyway. Wired one up - hardest part was finding a 12V DC power supply around my house. Ended up sacrificing a power supply to an external hard drive I'm not using right now. I can always replace it later. I'm impatient and wanted a "today" solution. Anyway. I wired one up and plugged it in. Holy quiet. I can't hear it over the ambient noise in my house from 2' away. Even right up on it it's just barely audible. From the next room there's zero noticeable sound. Puts out a good amount of air, too. I took a video of it...is there any way to upload a video on here without using YouTube? Don't want to link my personal account here...
The shame of messy wiring for now but they're all up and running. The plug I used puts out 12V DC and 2A, each fan pulls .14A so I'm well within tolerance. All of them running is still way within my noise tolerance and moves a significant amount of air. We'll see how they do when I put em to the test.
Hopefully some real progress will start happening today. I got the wardrobe out of the attic....by myself. Boyfriend found out yesterday at work that he's being transferred two states away within the next year, so he was pretty useless and I was pretty devastated last night. So this morning I put my engineering cap on and fucking solved my problem by myself. The issue wasn't weight, it was a 180 turn on the landing under the slope of the roof. There's a half wall between the first half of the stairs and the second after the landing. Lets just say tie downs and ropes were involved and roof trusses may have served as pulleys. It was fucking epic. Don't fuck with me when I'm emotional, I WILL tie you to something and haul your ass down some stairs. Don't mind the mess of a room it's in...only one bedroom out of four has been renovated - mine. Anyway. Time to get to work. Edit: I just found out this fucker is self locking! The other door (not pictured) has a skeleton key hole that turns a tumbler to lock it, and the door that's on it in the pic has a latch on the inside to open it, so you have to open the keyed door to open the other door. Brilliant! Even better, I already have a skeleton key that works for it...goes to the wardrobe I actually use for clothes since my house has no closets.
just remember you are adding electricity and small amount of water into a wood box so you need to make sure ventilation and safety measures are met.