What Light For One Plant

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by skeletorsuncle, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. I agree that hps is a very good option as well. Although I would use a better bulb then the ones at 1000bulbs dot com. Ushio, hortilux, badass, or even plant max before 1000bulbs... And plant max are really cheap.
    I also agree that led still may have some learning curve and also improve with more time, but at the same time they have come along way. With a hps he will definitely be needing a 6 inch exhaust running to cool the bulb. With a 700 watt led with actual 350 watt draw, he could use a 4 inch exhaust and scrubber and probably control temps if grow area is within a area that is relatively cool. 4 inch exhaust also cheaper to run. So although led has only been around almost 10 years it is worth the risk if you get a good led from a reputable place that offers a good warranty. Just my .02...

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  2. No matter if you go 400 cmh, 400 or 600 hps, or a led keep in mind these are all low penetration lights. So no matter which route you go, make sure you look into some kind of LST or scrog it. Try to get a even canopy spread out to the usable foot print of any of the lights.



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  3. I have an eye hortilux right next to that cheap bulb right now in my grow journal.

    There is no difference in growth, yield, flavor, scent, etc. I used eye hortilux for 6 years before I tried cheaper bulbs.
    Dont believe everything you read. Try if for yourself, side by side, like I do.


    If youre going to invest in a light you should invest and not go stupid cheap anyway, you buy shit, you end up with shit.

    I recommend this vented hood:
    Sun system super sun 2 hood based on this review:
    https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=51325

    That guy replaced all the hoods in his WAREHOUSE after that light test.

    I also recommend 600w quantum digital ballasts. Ive run one for over 5.5 years straight with no breaks, 18 hours a day. I recently added another of each to my collection and based on my reviews, several family members have as well. They are quiet, digital, dimmable, and switchable, meaning theyll take 600w mh bulbs as well.

    A vent hood is 25 dollars on amazon. I have 3, no air conditioning, live in southern cali, have it in a basement and my max temps when its 112 outside are 90 in my room. And thats with 1200w. I recommend attaching the vent fan directly to the hood. No carbon filter is required with ona liquid concentrate + water absorbing crystals + water = ona gel

    Cheapest way to go.
     
  4. I can't talk about if an led light will last 50 years, but I can say it grows really nice stuff....

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  5. I agree to an extent. I used hortilux also for years and switched over to the plant max and noticed no real difference. I just think the cheap ones are not dialed in to the best optimal spectrum. Merely street lights. Plant max are really cheap but at least they are dialed in a Lil bit.

    Hps off the bat is by far the cheapest way to go. But I would say at least a 600 to get a nice footprint of 3x3. Then we deal with heat produced. A 400 hps has a good usable footprint of 2.5x2.5 feet at best with weak penetration. A 350 actual power draw led has a usable footprint of 3.5x3.5..


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  6. No youre actually wrong. The spectrum on both the plantmax and plusrite is 2000k, 2700k being perfect for flowering.

    Plantmax is cheaper though, being 3 dollars less.

    The eye hortilux is 131 dollars and has a 2100 kelvin rating.

    Like I said, side by side theres no difference and why would there be with the same rating?

    I do 4x4 no problem with a 600w

    Whats the wattage on that led? Those buds look small.

    Here's a single 600w with a "street light" plusrite bulb

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Pokes is right I talk LEDs all the time but i am old and LEDs are not. back in the day i found this out. Brada those buds look nice!!! I think i am going to pack one in celebration of the street light industry. :bongin:
     
  8. #28 skeletorsuncle, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014
    First off, I would like to thank all of you for your advice and assistance. I browsed around this and other forums last night, and found an interesting grow journal that compared the G8LED 450 to a 1000w HPS with a 1 plant to 1 plant comparison. It is an excellent journal that kept track of dates as well as yields. The data I got from the comparison allowed me to come up with an efficiency comparison between this particular LED and the HPS. In order to make the data I got from the journal useful for my situation, was forced to make some assumptions along the way. Among my assumptions were that a lower wattage LED of the same make and model (in my case, I would be getting the G8LED 240 instead of the G8LED 450) would retain the same or similar efficiency as the higher wattage LED. I have no way of confirming this, I'm just going with this idea that because LED lights gain their efficiency advantage over traditional HID lights by virtue of the LED's specifically dialed in lighting spectrum. While I understand that a lower wattage would definitely have a lower overall yield, and a lesser ability to penetrate canopy, it should have a similar yield-per-watt. My conclusions are as follows.
     
    At the end of the day, the LED produced a lower yield-per-plant (roughly 87 grams for the LED versus 165 grams for the HPS). The LED also required approximately two extra weeks of flower time to achieve a proper harvest. Despite the lower yield and extra time, the LED came out ahead in efficiency, due to its much lower power usage, growing roughly 0.165 grams per kilowatt hour used, where as the HPS came in at roughly 0.116 grams per kilowatt hour used. As mentioned above, assuming the efficiency of any LED setup would be largely the same among differing wattages from the same make and model, I used this data to extrapolate a guess at probable results from the G8LED 240 compared to a 400w HPS. At this point, I lowered the efficiency of the HPS slightly due to the well known fact that 400 watt HPS systems provide fewer lumens per watt when compared to 1000w HPS systems (and the fact that a large portion of HPS's yield potential comes from the strong light output of HPS systems as opposed to the exactly dialed in spectrum of LEDs).
     
    Once I had a theoretical efficiency of the G8LED 240 with one plant versus a 400w HPS with one plant, I incorporated that data into a personalized formula that took into account the input cost of each system (purchase price), my electricity rates, yearly upkeep costs (replacement bulbs) as well as my desired yield-per-year to determine a break-even point. Three things immediately struck me. First, my desire to grow only one plant at a time was going to severely impact my ability to recoup the higher input cost of the LED system. Only growing one plant at a time means that I will have no mother plant and no clones. Which means that each plant will be grown from seed. The lower-yield-despite-higher-efficiency "problem" of the G8LED 240 means that, despite being more energy efficient, I would be required to conduct more grows, which means more seeds used. And since seeds aren't free, this increases the cost of ownership of the LED system compared to the HPS system. Second, my low desired yearly-yield meant I was not going to be running the light full time. Which further decreased any potential energy savings (as I was simply not using it as much). Third, I happen to live in an area with relatively low electricity rates. While this is normally a boon, it makes it more difficult to realize gains based on lower electricity usage. No matter what part of the country (or world) you live in, this LED costs (at this time) $310. Energy rates, however, are different everywhere.
     
    Taking all this into consideration, I realized that it would take me approximately 3.5 years to recoup the higher initial cost of the G8LED 240 system versus a 400w HPS system. In 3.5 years, who knows where LED technology (and cost) is going to be. For me, it's just not worth it. I think I have sidetracked my own thread, from a start of trying to determine the optimal wattage light for one plant, to a comparison of HPS vs LED for low quantity growing.
     
    For anyone who is wondering why I am taking the time to write all this, I figure my calculations may someday help someone else in a similar situation. I realize that this is very specific to my circumstances, but since I took the time to calculate all this crap, I may as well share it in case it helps anyone else who is thinking of buying an LED system. I would like to thank everyone again for your input and assistance in figuring this situation out.
     
    EDIT: Grammar, spelling, and readability.
     
  9. ^ youre absolutely righ that your post will help someone who searches later. I appreciate you taking the time to write out your thoughts. I actually spent an hour last night lookin through old pics to find my old grows, so I could show you what im talking about. My end goal is the same as yours, to make people think and to provide them an informed decision.

    I am firm in my position because I have spent the time and the money to experiment. It's very easy to state an opinion, much harder to back it up with evidence.

    Whatever light you choose, I hope youre not only hapoy with it, but that perhaps you might consider a grow journal to help others learn from your methods, mistakes, and experimentation; afterall, that's what makes us a community.

    Take it easy and happy growing!

    -poke
     
  10. If buds look small, that's because I'm only 29 days into 12/12. Also i am growing a madman og x Tahoe og, which is very low yielding to start off with. But oh so tasty. I do only grow for personal and don't need monster plants with pounds of weed for me to sit on. I enjoy the low yielders.. And since I do grow all year, I never even finish the last harvest before the next harvest is done. I only veg a plant 20 days before throwing into 12/12. And for the record I am using a 600 actual watt led. And with almost 20 years of hps use, I have to say that the light is producing same amount I used to get with a 1000 watt hps. Only the buds are frostier. :)





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  11. This was a helpful thread. I've been wondering for a long time if the more expensive bulbs were actually better. Just a couple days ago I purchased 2 $25 600w iPower bulbs, and I was afraid maybe I was gambling with the health of my plants. I was willing to do an experiment, in order to save $100 per bulb. But it looks like you guys have already done that experiment. Thanks.
     
    Plus I figured that if I could replace the cheaper bulbs more frequently than the expensive bulbs (even twice as often, if such a thing were necessary), then I should have higher overall lumens anyway.
     
    Lots of the reviews for the iPower bulbs on Amazon were negative. But then when I looked at the reviews for the more expensive bulbs, lots of those reviews were negative also (like with the bulbs breaking after 1 week, etc).
     
  12.  
     
    When I first started I was going to grow just one plant under 100 watts of CFL bulbs. Several years later I now have easily a grand invested in gear + resources and I grow between 1-16 plants a time :laughing: .
     
    It was a pretty slow progression though..Just kept expanding a bit each cycle. It's really fun though why stop at one plant when I can grow 5 :smoke: .
     
  13. No need to explain yourself.

    Everything you just said is true about the plants you see above, virtually no veg, perpetual grow but unlike you, my username is true. My terminal lung disease means I die without cannabis and yes, what you see above is all personal smoke. Glad you like LED. I have been in talks with a company to sponsor me with a free LED. Perhaps that will change my mind on them when I finally get there and I can only promise that I will not be biased, but give it a fair chance like I do with all the lights that bless my plants and my grow journal.

    Its been an interesting talk. Im glad i was able to debunk some of the propaganda you believe, such as spectrum being different between cheap and overpriced marketing schemes and "more expensive lights being better."

    A picture is worth a thousand words. Im glad we were able to find common ground in our different approach.

    You take it easy brother and maybe someday ill be blessed enough to meet you and break some bud together :smoke:

    Wish you all the best dude!

    -poke
     
  14.  
     
    Hey be careful about the iPower shit.. I also purchased a 600W combo back for the ipower, but it failed after 2 months, brought it to my hydro shop and learned that it was drawing power incorrectly, and to top it off it's not UL certified, so the quote I got from the hydro store guy was pretty much something like this 'if it ever caught fire not only would you be up shit's creek but your insurance wouldn't cover the damages' etc.
     
    I don't want to make you feel bad about the purchase or anything, just want to let you know to be careful with the cheap brands you can get from places like amazon. I've since then gone back to the better known brands, I use Digital Greenhouse now, and have not had issues since.
     
  15. Id say the most important thing to remember is that your growth will be half as fast with a metal halide in the same wattage as with hps, due to having almost half the lumens.

    Im glad my experimentation and my trial and error has helped you all along. I couldnt ask for more!

    You guys are all amazing growers and I feel blessed to be included in your journals and to call you all my friends!

    Ive personally never tried Ipower, but if their knockoff of the quantum digital ballast (which is an improvement over lumatek) is any indication, Id say the chinese are on the right track!

    Im gonna have to pick up some other name brand bulbs and do side by side grows so that I can have an informed personal opinion about them.
     
  16. One more thing, since I have switched over to led, my wallet only suffers about half the blow it used too. I don't have to run exhaust entire time light is on, I have it on a controller and its 2 mins on, 2 mins off. And I never go over 81. I am no longer needing to use my portable ac. And I use only half the nutes I used before.
    Also for the record, I do believe hps is the most tried and true option for lighting out there, but led is also becoming a very good option too.


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  17. Thanks for the advice! I'll be sure to keep my eyes open! :)
     
    I'm around the grow area almost 24x7, especially now that the winter time is approaching. And I have a camera (and sound alarms) always enabled in the area, so I can monitor it remotely during the rare times that I'm gone.
     
    I had seen some of the reviewers for the iPower bulbs talking about fires and explosions too.
     
  18. #38 nuker121hydro, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014
    Also I think all the trials people do with hid vs led, they grow hps style. If you grow plants exactly the same under led and hps, you will stunt the led growth. Led requires less water and less nutes.

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  19. Oops, I forgot to specify that my bulbs were HPS. :) I had searched on the forums earlier about what type to use, and it seemed unanimous that everyone prefers HPS for the flowering.
     
    So many things are made in China these days, even the more expensive brands. Sometimes I wonder if some of the expensive brands are made in the same factories, and with the same quality, as the cheaper brands.
     
    I've purchased $10 high-lumens hand-held flashlights that were brighter than comparable $150 flashlights, and so far none of them have failed me. A similar thing can be seen with CCTV security DVRs, where a $150 box has the same feature set and durability as a $800 unit.
     
  20. I've seen so much good and bad with LED. It just seems like there's so much information out there, and so many low quality knock off brands that the whole type of lighting got a stigma, but I do definitely believe the potential is there. I've seen growers do amazing things with LED lights. The only reason most people would advocate against them right now, is that for a beginner using HID lighting is the most tried and true reliable and consistent way to grow easily. Not to say that LED can't do the same, but the entry level knowledge is a lot higher to know what you are actually doing to make sure you are using good LED lights.
     
    A part of the stigma unfortunately is a lot of beginners jump in on the cheap crappy LED lights, and after so much of that people tend to be weary. That, and the cost of the LED lights (good ones) are quite expensive, although similar to HID lighting, unless you've got the experience and knowledge to know how to make it work, it could feel like a gamble for people who aren't big on LED.
     
    I'd definitely give it a shot. If I knew more about it so I wouldn't buy a shitty light for 500 dollars that can't beat the output on a 60 dollar HPS bulb. I definitely think there's something there but right now it's still pretty niche because of the price and diverse quality in the market.
     

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