What Do You Think Causes Evolution?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by FindSomeTrees, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. For example, roses have been picked by humans for thousands of years. When they get picked they die. So EVOLUTION causes the roses to grow thorns over time. Now I know favorable traits are passed down to offspring through genes and DNA. But what causes this? How are they passed down? What tells life to pass down favorable traits to its offspring?

    Here is something else to think about. Evolution will always work towards surviving. So if we as humans keep trashing and destroying our planet, will evolution eventually play it's role? Could the reason the weather is getting worse, more violent, and unpredictable be evolutions way of trying to preserve the earth? I know this is probably dumb, but it is something that popped into my head while pondering and I had to share it.

    Evolutionary change just fascinates me and I feel like it is part of something bigger that our brains can't comprehend. What are your thoughts on evolution?

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  2. We're all going to die so the world can evolve to deal with our bullshit. We already evolved. Now it's becoming a problem.
     
  3. #3 nativetongues, Aug 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2014
    1. For example, roses have been picked by humans for thousands of years. When they get picked they die. So EVOLUTION causes the roses to grow thorns over time. Now I know favorable traits are passed down to offspring through genes and DNA. But what causes this? How are they passed down? What tells life to pass down favorable traits to its offspring?

    1. It's funny the very answer to your question is posed in the question itself. Evolution is merely a term to describe the natural phenomenon of changes in frequencies of genes in organisms over time. The thing that causes evolution is circumstance and chemical/biological reactions. What I mean by this is that over time organism's DNA, the code for all organisms, mutates and changes because the human body is imperfect and not always able to perfectly replicate DNA when it's being replicated, which is required to create new cells or reproduce, which we do every day. These mutations can lead to changes that result in irregular or new characteristics for an organism that they haven't traditionally had. For example say a certain type of spider has a bunch of mutations when it is reproducing leading to offspring with a green color. Let's assume that the traditional colors for this spider is black. Now due to the fact that this spiders natural habitat is grass, having a green color is advantageous because it makes it harder for predators to spot the spider. This means that any spider who mutates to this color is more likely to survive, reproduce, make several more green spiders, who will have a better chance to survive and reproduce than the black spiders. Over time the green spider will start to become much more prevalent than the black spider because the green makes them less likely to be killed by predators. This is just one example of many forms of evolution but it is the most common example and easiest to understand. Similarly, in the example of the rose, over time a rose mutated and grew thorns as a result of random changes in coding of the DNA. These thorns made it less likely that people would try to pick them up so they survived easier than non thorned roses, allowing them to spread their genes more frequently and become the dominant type of rose. There is nothing that tells organisms to pass down favorable traits. It is merely the result of chemical and biological reactions which result most likely from fundamental laws of nature and physics, which we don't fully understand, but there's no way to tell for sure. Maybe it's all as a result of string theory and the Big Bang or maybe cause some god created it all. Either way we have a pretty good idea about the mechanisms of evolution even if we don't know the ultimate root cause because it's pretty much impossible to discover empirically beyond all shadow of a doubt.

    2. Here is something else to think about. Evolution will always work towards surviving. So if we as humans keep trashing and destroying our planet, will evolution eventually play it's role? Could the reason the weather is getting worse, more violent, and unpredictable be evolutions way of trying to preserve the earth? I know this is probably dumb, but it is something that popped into my head while pondering and I had to share it.
    2. I think you may be misinterpreting evolution a little bit but I could be wrong. I don't think evolution is always driving organisms to survive. In fact many if not most I think mutations actually result in a less fit animal and never actually lead to change because the creature dies out. However whenever animals evolve advantageous characteristics they tend to grow at a quicker rate than the rest of that animal population and start to spread their genes to the rest of the population. Evolution doesn't always drive survival but rather advantageous evolution drives survival. It seems like that was kind of what you were getting at but I thought I would clarify. I mean yes technically the reason weather is changing could be as a result of some sort of karmic global evolution, but it's extremely unlikely considering that evolution is a biological phenomenon and the earth is not an organism. I think that we are slightly responsible for the dramatic weather only because we created certain conditions that made weather patterns a little more unstable. I don't think the earth is evolving to try and out survive the human race or anything like that. Seems unreasonable considering that evolution requires generations of beings and reproduction which the earth cannot do. I'm not trying to be a dick but to be honest this a little far fetched. I think you should do some more research into evolution because I don't think you fully grasp what it is. Evolution describes a very wide range of theories, mechanism, and observable phenomenon. Evolution is much more than just survival of the fittest. Ultimately I agree that certain facets of evolution such as abiogenesis are a little bit beyond us and can never fully be understood by us. However other things are very well understood about evolution which is why I think you should do a little more research on the subject. Also I kind of think this should be in the science and nature section cause this is really more of a science topic.

    2.
     
  4. Yes I was misinterpreting evolution but thank you very much for explaining that. You made it a lot clearer for me. I thought there was a driving force that causes mutations, but didn't realize that it was just caused randomly.

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  5. #5 nativetongues, Aug 3, 2014
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    No problem. I love explaining shit so don't worry about it. Yeah that's one of the most common misconceptions that people have about evolution. They think that monkeys, well really I should say apes I think, willed themselves to evolve into humans or that there's some force making animals better suited to live. At the end of the day every system makes mistakes, and the human body is no different. These mistakes interacting with the environment is what leads to evolution, so yes you could definitely say it's random to a certain degree. If you have any more questions on the topic feel free to ask and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability or find a more formal text to explain.
     
  6. Fixed

    :smoke: good explanation though.
     
  7. #7 yurigadaisukida, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2014
    Op you are misunderstanding "evolution"

    When you have a billion rose bushes, and half.die, the half that survived will pass on their genes.

    Its just random. At some point a rose with throns wwas born. These horns helped keep.it from getting eaten and caused its genes to spread.

    It didn't "evolve" thorns to prevent it from getting eaten, it "mutated" thorns randomly, and then found use for them


    Also roses.don't die when.humans pick them, and they probly had thorns before humans came around.

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  8. Emptiness.
     
  9. I believe it's the power behind the PENIS!

    dilligaf
     
  10. #10 Account_Banned283, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
     
    From your account of evolution I do not see where the development of a species occurs, it reads as though an organism's DNA merely mutates randomly under certain conditions, and depending on whether those mutations are suitable for the environment, the mutated organism is able to reproduce significantly and produce more of it's kin. However, following this logic, we would account for the human species for example, by saying that, for instance, at some point in evolutionary history, one of our ancestors DNA mutated and left that particular ancestor to be born with two hands with two opposable thumbs, who then reproduced significantly, which led to more of our ancestors being endowed with two hands and two opposable thumbs, and following this at some point further on, another of our ancestors' DNA mutated in such a way as to endow that ancestor with two feet, etc. But this surely can't be what the theory of evolution entails?
     
  11. Dna passes infomation down to the next generation.
     
  12.  
    I understand that.. but it doesn't answer my difficulties.. :mellow:
     
  13.  
    You understand it right. But you need to realize this is over millions of years.  its been 2000 years since we basically started counting time, add another 599,998,000 years and thats how long ago animals started evolving.  It's a very slow process if you think about it from a human perspective.
     
  14. #14 Account_Banned283, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
     
    So my ''two hands with two opposable thumbs'' example is sufficient then? That is, evolution tells us that it is possibility, that on one particular occasion, a member of our ancestry was born with two mutated hands and thumbs? Or were the modifications much smaller? In which case, is there any evidence to show these modifications?
     
  15. The traits for our hands were in our DNA long before we were human, more than likely all the way back to when our evolutionary line was fish. Our limbs evolved from fish fins, to amphibian legs, to reptile legs, to rodent legs, to primates arms and legs, to human arms and legs. The front fins of the type of fish that our line is thought to stem from are set up similar to our hands and many other land animals, similar structure in terms of bones and such, just different functions. Our opposable thumb probably didn't develop until our ancestors first started living in the trees, which would of been around the rodent/primate phase.

    Very small modifications over a long period of time. You won't find evidence of a dramatic change, only small changes that add up. You'll never find a specific fossil that shows a dramatic change that looks like a mutant that evolved into something else.

    I'm on mobile, but if you look up 'There Was No First Human' on YouTube, its a good video about evolution.

    Mobile mumbling..
     
  16. #16 Account_Banned283, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
     
    The traits for our hands were in our DNA long before we were human, more than likely all the way back to when our evolutionary line was fish. Our limbs evolved from fish fins, to amphibian legs, to reptile legs, to rodent legs, to primates arms and legs, to human arms and legs. The front fins of the type of fish that our line is thought to stem from are set up similar to our hands and many other land animals, similar structure in terms of bones and such, just different functions. Our opposable thumb probably didn't develop until our ancestors first started living in the trees, which would of been around the rodent/primate phase.
     
    For what reason or purpose did a limb evolve from a fin? Or was it merely a sequence of random mutations that eventually led to a specific animal being given a fully functioning limb.. because as native has described it, one would think that the only way a limb would evolve from a fin would be through pure coincidence, but as you say further on in your post, humans were likely to have evolved opposable thumbs once they began to live in the trees, which implies that there was a reason for them evolving thumbs, namely to allow them to climb the trees more effectively..
     
  17. #17 yurigadaisukida, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2014
    You wrong. That's exactly how evolution works.

    In fact if you look at our genes you can pinpoint each mutation. There is a llot.of research being done on the subject.

    But yes. Its random mutations.

    The reason it tools billions of years to evolve humans is because its random, if traits were guided hy inteligent design, evolution should he able to happen in a few ggenerations, not a few billion years

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  18. humans aren't the only animals with opposable thumbs.

    There is a dinosaur with them too I forget its name. Iguanadon?

    It literally only takes a mutation in one gene to cause a HUGE change in the resulting bbody.

    Our heard for example, has 4 chambers because a mutation occured causing the two chambered heart to be double.

    Have you ever seen a person with down syndrome? Some people have tails too. Webbed feet?

    You can get some pretty significant changes from small mutations in genes.

    Not all aare beneficial (like down syndrome)

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  19. Its not that it evolved for a reason. Its that it was found to have a use.

    Eyes are useful for survival, but not all life has eyes. If your.logic followed that evolution was intentional, everything should have eyes

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  20. #20 Account_Banned283, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
     
    I didn't say that evolution was intentional, I questioned whether there would be a reason as to why one of our ancestors should mutate a thumb coincidentally, and according to you, there was no reason, which is fine, but it leaves me to wonder why there are not specimens remarkably similar to human beings still walking today with all but some minor variations from us..
     

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