6X Black Water Og - 400W Mh @ Veg - 1000W Hps @ Flower - Vertical - Scrog - Lst Combo - 500 Gram Yeild Goal

Discussion in 'Indoor Grow Journals' started by greaterthings123, Aug 2, 2014.

Page 6 of 11
  1. #101 greaterthings123, Sep 23, 2014
    I have a ph and ppm meter now.  For the past week I've been perfect, but that's it.  Sometimes I learn slowly and mostly from mistakes.  Learning is the important part though.  I'm hoping for a substantial harvest.  24 oz.  is what I'm allowed, and I'd be pumped to get it... or more. I still am running MH, but the HPS is coming tomorrow.  Have you heard of Blue Sabre as a bulb brand?  This is the $50 one at my shop and it's what I had for MH.  I'll clean out the cool tube really well when I change it as those weeks without a filter added some significant dust in the tube.   Do you have a cheap bulb preference? What and why?

     
  2. #102 snoopdog6502, Sep 23, 2014
     
    Dont know many brands, I do know the ones im using now are nice.  $20  1,000w HPS.
     
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/191307246024?lpid=82
     
    Iv been told you dont want to run a MH in a cool tube, it puts a damper on the UVB and UVA.
     
  3. #103 greaterthings123, Sep 23, 2014
    @[member="snoopdog6502"] ... There's a new vid a few posts up.  The CoCO has pushed past the soil in overall size, but the COCO has also produced more distance between nodes.   I can't wait to see the difference in buds. 
     
  4. #104 greaterthings123, Sep 23, 2014
    Actually $30 with shipping.  Which is what the Apollos and such run on ebay/amazon too with "free" shipping.  I haven't heard any UVB/UVA things with MH in cool tubes.  That sounds worth researching.  Overall lumen loss only amounts to 5%, which I am willing to lose because of the ventilation ease.  At the same time, it's 5% out the gate + the UVB/UVA loss.  I donno... I'll be using a MUCH larger room soon... so I guess I could get rid of the cool tube.  I'm slowly learning.  Like I said.  Time will tell.  Thanks for all your help thus far. 
     
  5. #105 greaterthings123, Sep 25, 2014
    BUDGET, VIDEO, AND PIC UPDATE:
     
    AEROPONIC CLONER - HPS BULB 1m7s:  View attachment WIN_20140924_191206.MP4
     
    Best view I can take: WIN_20140924_200614.JPG
    Closer shot of canopy:  WIN_20140924_200643.JPG
    Chair = 32" tall, Door = 28" wide WIN_20140924_200747.JPG
    Chair gone, Shortest LST plant = 34" WIN_20140924_200819.JPG
     
    BUDGET:
     
    - 6 rooted Black Water OG clones ---------------------------------------$ 60 
    - 2 38.6 Qt. bags of FFOF (friends extra) ----------------------------- $ 10
    - 400w MH + 2 used bulbs on Craigslist -------------------------------$ 40
    - DIY ducting into reflector ------------------------------------------------ $  8
    - Soul Synthetics Grow (1 qt.) --------------------------------------------$ 16
    - 6 5gal planters -------------------------------------------------------------- free
    - Saturn 6 Cool Tube (from growshop @ cost)-----------------------$  72
    - Apollo Horticulture 1000 watt dimmable ballast -------------------$110
    - 6" induct fan (temporary exhaust, permanent intake)-------------$ 30
    - 25' of 6" duct ----------------------------------------------------------------$ 18
    - Soul Synthetics Player Pack Nutrients -------------------------------$ 40
    - Aquarium PH kit (THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN 1ST!)------------$   9
    - Used 6" hi-velocity 440CFM inlne fan --------------------------------$ 65
    - Vinyl material for drainage ----------------------------------------------free
    - Reflective mylar material ------------------------------------------------free
    - Timer  (Not in use, still 24/0)---------------------------------------------$  6
    - Digital RH/Thermometer -------------------------------------------------$  8
    - Scrog Trellis ------------------------------------------------------------------$ 14
    - 10"x40" FREE Carbon Filter --------------------------------------------free
    - PH DOWN (General Hydroponics) -------------------------------------$ 10
    - PH/PPM Meters (AMAZON.com)----------------------------------------$ 21
    - DIY Coffee Can Cloner (4 site) ------------------------------------------$ 18
    - DIY Aeroponic Cloner (9 site) --------------------------------------------$ 41
    - HPS Bulb (cheap china no brand name) ------------------------------$ 21
     
     
     
    _____________________________________________________________
     
    TOTAL INVESTMENT (9/24/14) ----------------------------------------- $616  (3 oz. dank at my price)
     
     
     
  6. #106 InternationalHarvester, Sep 27, 2014
    3oz for $600? So cheap man. I've got some friends who buy for $350-$400 an O.
     
  7. #107 greaterthings123, Sep 28, 2014
    Yeah, it's been a long time since I've paid any more than 220 an O.  Usually less.  I get quarters for $50 to $60, so the break isn't just on an O.  It's funny the retail weed you get here in WA is $30 a gram.  Nuts.
     
  8. #108 greaterthings123, Oct 3, 2014
    Pulled a COCO LST and a FFOF LST out the room for a side by side pic.  FFOF in left black planter, COCO in right green planter. 
     
    WIN_20141002_184241.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184306.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184315.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184419.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184531.JPG
     
    The COCO seems slightly stretchier than the FFOF with more space between branches and nodes.  At 12 days 12/12, the teeny little nugs on the COCO are slightly better developed than the tiny nugs on the FFOF. These 2 have had identical nutes, light, and training (of course slightly different training)  I have alternated feeding and water only back and forth, but the coco has been fed/watered a little more often because it drys out faster.  

    Pulled a COCO LST and a FFOF LST out the room for a side by side pic.  FFOF in left black planter, COCO in right green planter. 
     
    WIN_20141002_184241.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184306.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184315.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184419.JPG
    WIN_20141002_184531.JPG
     
    The COCO seems slightly stretchier than the FFOF with more space between branches and nodes.  At 12 days 12/12, the teeny little nugs on the COCO are slightly better developed than the tiny nugs on the FFOF. These 2 have had identical nutes, light, and training (of course slightly different training)  I have alternated feeding and water only back and forth, but the coco has been fed/watered a little more often because it drys out faster.  
     
  9. #109 mactheman, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2014
    hi greaterthings just been reading in snoops grow you got flowering plants with root bound,,,,,ive  potted up plants after 3-4 weeks of being in flower ,,for me it was easy cuz i try to keep my plants smallish ,,but it can be done and the plants will love you for it ,,But like always you got to be careful,,if they are large if you can get a friend to help you,,but it best if you can do the re-potting your self,...it wont stress the plants any more than what being root bound would do,plus you'll get bigger buds,mac
     
  10. #110 greaterthings123, Oct 12, 2014
    I'm not definite that I am root bound... Is what I've described shown signs of rootbind?  I'd rather avoid re-potting, as access to my gro is already limited.  I have added milk jugs with pinholes to slowly water them, and this is a pain as well.  In the beginning, I went without saucers underneath because I wanted to avoid salt build-up.  I wonder if the edition of saucers now would help me save on nutrient runoff.  Just some thoughts.  I think I am at Day 22 of flower, and I am still surprised with the weight these buds are packing on.  I'll update on pics soon.  
     
  11. #111 mactheman, Oct 13, 2014
    hi greaterthingssorry mate i thought you had said you were root bound ,,,and was just saying that you could pot up ,,,,if your plants start llooking like that they aint putting on weight and growth and you start getting what looks like nute deficiency and youve been feeding them you might be root bound ,as they cant get the nutes and water they need,,,,,,mac
     
  12. #112 greaterthings123, Oct 14, 2014
    Just a picture of the scrog.  Cant really take photos of the LST as they block the doorway.  I have to pull them out to water and they are WAY to big for the door.   I am considering shooting myself for following @GoldGrower 's advice in waiting to flip the light.  LOLJK.  The scrog is great, its just that the 3 LST plants stretched beyond measure and I am having to have the lights 24 to 30 inches above the scrog yet 12 inches above my 3 in LST. 
     
    I bought my medium for clones.  I went with Roots Organics Formula 707.  I got sold at the store.  They were out of Pro-mix CC which is what I really wanted to try out.    Is anybody familiar with Formula 707? 
     
    SCROG - 23 days in 12/12. - WIN_20141013_191955.JPG WIN_20141013_191958.JPG
     
     
     
  13. #113 tmntgrower, Oct 21, 2014
    I am sure the loose leaves in the pictures were just from you working with them and not picking up yet. Make sure though that you always take all dead plant material out of containers, off floor and into garbage asap. A clean grow is a happy grow, making sure that your hands are clean your clothes are clean and the room is clean goes a long way in keeping pests away.

    I saw the question you posted on snoop journal which is what brought me here I think the mycorrihizae is a waste of money. I have never used it so I can't say first hand, but all grow video I have seen comparing added to non added mycorrihizae in an organic grow led to zero improviments in growth. Imo it's like a hanging co2 bag designed to give you piece of mind while departing you from your cash. I can also see a scenario where the powder plugs up the fine mister heads. I run an aeroponic home made clone machine myself, life clone solution correctly ph water, clone x rooting gel is all you need. Clone solution is added 3-4 days after you start and if you don't buy pre made clone solution it's basically bloom nutes.

    Also why run the 24/0 for veg? I probably missed the Congo about that earlier. 18/6 is a lot better for the ladies, 24/0 is to much of a good thing. We are trying to play God so when it comes to lights we want to keep it as close to nature as we can imho.
     
  14. #114 greaterthings123, Oct 24, 2014
    Thanks for the input!  I'll be updating soon.  Crazy busy lately.  Buds looking great.  I stopped rotating water/feed with the COCO and in 2 feedings I see a HUGE burst.  People have been trying to talk me into defoliating the colas, but I'm sticking to my guns and keeping them all on.  Lil lolli-pop but the leaves don't come off unless they want to. 
     
    As a Caregiver I am now able to have a few more so I've been prepping for a SOG.  The SOG will put this journals "vertical" title to the test.  Stay tuned for "thinking outside the box... inside the box."  ... I hope it works. 
     
  15. #115 greaterthings123, Oct 24, 2014
    The Mycorrihizea not helping an organic grow would be typical.  Most organic mixes are already full of living organisms.  Not much need to add bacteria (bennies) to a mix that already has a perfect plenty.  Mycorr grows FAT roots in peat and COCO.  That's proven. 
     
    Bloom nutes is what I've been trying in the cloner.  It works.  I just wonder if mycorr would boost the root growth.  I donno...
     
    Plants survive in light.  Why 24?  Because plants don't sleep.  Plants cannot have too much of a good thing IF this good thing is light.  When a plant enters darkness, it gust stops doing anything (stops photosynthesis).  Give a plant 24/0 and it will keep growing.  It will get to the size you want it a third faster than one in 18/6.   6 weeks instead of 8.  3 weeks instead of 4.  Keeping it 24 is creating perfect nature.  A plant does not want rest.  A plant wants to survive.  Lack of light is a sign of death.  That is why 12/12 induces flowering and seed... the plant thinks it is going to die.  Just a thought.
     
  16. #116 tmntgrower, Oct 24, 2014
    See that was a well thought out explanation. I stand on the other side of th arguement saying you can have to much of a good thing. A lot of people have said that the plant needs 6hrs to really use the energy they have stored up during the daytime. My plants always grow more during lights off than lights on. I check when light comes on check before light goes out. It's always more impressive growth when you turn lights on, Inc that's not proof just my observation. I also feel that 18 is closer to her true nature because no plant ever gets 24 light.


    Mycorrihizea I was not aware rocked in coco and peat. Expensive so I had not tried it I will definitely look into it again. I always thought they were beneficial bacteria that needed a quote living soil to bond with" ? In aero what can they bond with?
     
  17. #117 DankNaturally, Oct 24, 2014
    .

    Hey unless you either want slower growth or plants to sex a bit faster if you are using ref seeds don't switch to 18/6 . Not sure why he thinks what he said, but it's not true. It has been studied and proven That 24/0 does not hurt them, is not "too much of a good thing", and works better unless you are sexing seedlings because the dark helps sex them a bit quicker.

    To repeat you get only two things with 18/6. A bit cheaper power and faster sexing. Remember the cheaper power comes with slower growth. Be very careful who you take advice from on here. People repeat info just because they were told by someone and they do it, which really means nothing considering they have no idea why.

    I hope things keep going well man I'm subbed !
     
  18. #118 tmntgrower, Oct 24, 2014
    Not trying to Jack your thread so I apologize for this but I feel insulted I was stating my view which what we all do on here it's another growers view. Telling somebody be careful of my advice is fine I would be careful of any advice given by anybody. Growing is about find what's right for you in your setup with your strain. All that said here goes what I base my view on.
    All plants in nature have a light dark cycle. Nowhere on earth does a plant naturally get 24hrs of light except attic and Alaska places where Mary Jane doesn't grow naturally. Over time plants have learned to adapt and evolve to the environment to make best use of resources found in nature. The best success you can find is trying to get as close to this as you can. During lighting plants have a process called photosynthesis. Carbs are stored up in the Plants leaves using co2 in the air. Plants are limited in how much of these carbs that it can store up. During Calvin cycle or lights off said plainly the plant stops photosynthesis and transports these carbs to roots and main stem much more effectively. It also allows for storage space of new carbs to be freed up. This is why 24/0 works for seedlings, and low powered lights. You get less return on freed up storage space vs potential.
    Auto flower growers use 20/4 quite often the whole life of their girls. Most report that the extra 4hrs of light they could give the plant gives almost zero help to plant. Energy savings from less hours of light given added with allowing for nature's plan for your girls to take place is why I use 18/6 even with my led lighting.
    Everybody is allowed to have their own view on lighting cycle and the debate has waged for decades now. Saying that I am dangerous for expressing I don't believe in 24hr lighting is counter productive scare tactics. Healthily disagreement and exploration of different areas of growing is how we all learn to get the best of our girls.
     
  19. #119 greaterthings123, Oct 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
    I hear what you are saying about 18/6.  I've struggled with doing a comparison, but after viewing many journals and keeping up with timelined pictures, I have never seen an 18/6 veg beat a 24/0 veg without some other limiting factor.  All my friends in real life tried to convince me to go 18/6 this grow, but then they come back over 1 to 2 weeks later they tell me to keep doing what I'm doing.  (IE - my plants are getting bigger faster then there own). 
     
    EDIT: I would like to compare electricity usage though. My theory is how it would be equal over time if you have a plan to get your plants to a certain height before switching to 12/12.  You save money on the bill but you don't get to 12/12 as soon, so you can't cycle as fast.  If doing it commercially to make $ I think 24/0 would allow you more $ in the same amount of time.  If you are growing for personal use only, its up to you to decide whether a faster cycle is important to you.  
     
    Your question about the aero is a question I cannot answer.  I don't know much about mycorr needing living soil to bond with.  I think it can just bond with roots.  If one has various natural living additives mixed in with their coco or peat (guano and castings are technically live I THINK), this would help the bond if your thoughts are right.  Most instructions tell you to sprinkle it on the roots when transplanting, but I was curious if having it in the aero would help get a jump start.  The more I think about it, I think adding it could just cause problems.  It may even slime up the cloner.  I tried it anyways when I was drunk so I can tell you more later.
    You are not jacking my thread.  You are contributing!  THANKS!  I can choose what I believe, I'm a big boy.  I know dark cycles are natural, but I am not so sure a plant needs it like we need sleep. Actually, the smart scientist types are completely confused about why mammals need sleep - most researchers say how the physiological benefits of a sleeping human being don't make sense when compared to evolution theory.  
     
    I'm not convinced that 24/0 is perfect for an MJ plant, but neither is maximizing THC output through genetic engineering and using the silver stuff to mutate a plant into producing feminized seeds.  I'm not a person who cries, talks, and sings to his plants.  I just want them to DO WHAT THEY ARE FU%KING TOLD!  I want to yield the safest and healthiest medicine I can. 
     
    Thank you for being in my thread and sharing your opinions.  I have already learned from you.  You have even inspired me to google some stuff. 
     
    Any time you disagree about a decision I am to make, share your opinion.  That's how we learn.  GRASSCITY IS FRIGGIN AWESOME!   
     
  20. #120 tmntgrower, Oct 25, 2014
    They do bond with roots it's their job to help take away what the plant doesn't need by feeding off it and help the plant uptake what it does need. It may work in aero I have no clue, I just thought that they needed a medium beyond water to play as host before they bond with roots? They are only effective in a zero bottled chem grow as well which is duh I guess because the chemicals kill them. So it's one or the other, like led I am gonna sit back and wait til price point comes down. Greengro says you only need to add twice a cycle of plants transplant and before flower. It will be interesting to see if they do bond in your aero application. I am all for anything that makes my aero cloned work faster and better.
     
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