First of all let me say, I'm not really sure what my political views are right now. The last 'label' I really identified with was libertarian, and I still absolutely identify with the personal/social freedom aspect of it, which was always what I stressed anyways. But, I find myself having thoughts of dislike towards certain aspects of 'economic conservatism,' and capitalism, as of late. Now first of all, I am posting this in the philosophy section because I am really going to focus on some of the ideas underlying capitalism as opposed to its efficacy as a political system, and also they're a bunch of hardcore capitalists in the politics section. lol. Now, really an idea underlying capitalism is that greed is the only legitimate human motivation. Any time you discuss more utopian societies, the thought is 'well if there isn't incentive to become better off financially than others, no one will want to do anything.' And well, I frankly have come to hate the way some 'conservatives' talk. The second you talk about the idea of everyone having their needs, and many of their wants, met, the first thing they jump to is 'I'm not gonna support all those lazy bastards!' They can't even just consider that it would be nice If everyone had their wants/needs met, they just jump straight to thinking about the 'lazy bastards.' But this is what really gets me. Scarcity is absolutely built into the system. It's not just that it's difficult for us to reach some sort of utopia where we can all have access to things. It's that the capitalistic system cannot allow it to happen. Like ideas of free energy. What if everyone could have access to their energy or electric needs? They would not allow that to happen. If everyone has access to electricity, there is no business in electricity. Everyone just has it, the profit motive isn't there. What if everyone could have access to Wi-Fi? That would shut the Wi-Fi industry down. They cannot tolerate it. This is why 'online piracy' is said to be such a heinous crime. You mean everyone can just have access to something instantly and for free, without even using any physical material? How awful! Never mind the fact that this is an incredible human achievement, unparalleled in the history of this planet. There is no idea in this society of working towards a utopia. Even having it as an ideal. Innovation comes for its own sake, with no intention of elevating the human condition in general. No matter how much progress we make, things always adjust to keep the same basic class structure intact. I don't know whether we could achieve a sort of universal utopia, or at least universal meeting of needs, right now or not. They say we can't, but that is of course what they would want us to think. But the point is, even at whatever point it does occur that we have made enough progress that we could make it a reality, it couldn't exist in the context of a capitalist society. They wouldn't allow it, because it undercuts the whole system because it undermines scarcity, which is the whole context of capitalism. I believe a utopian society should be the end goal, the direction we head, the reason for the progress we make. And we have to consider this fact, that within this system it would never be allowed to happen, even if it were possible. And whether it's possible or abstract, that abstraction has to be understood, or else we can never even move in that direction, because the system is literally designed to make it impossible.
While I don't have time for a nice lengthy reply...I'll say it's evident this system is flawed. We can't account for everyone's needs and the animal kingdom does that shit like that's just the way it is (yes, shit happens). Another thing people often do is assume this is the best we can do. Because everyone s a greedy bastard and has to look out for themselves first and forget other's, but oh right.. only their tight fam..to which were all fam anyways. Peoples needs aren't even met. We suck.
So much wrong with this post. Nothing is free bud. That energy and WiFi you think should just be 'given' to people has to be paid for through taxes. People don't work for free. Someone has to work to produce it. What you are advocating is Communism. In order for growth to happen there has to be incentives for people to innovative. No incentives, no innovation.
Nothing is free? Not even the air I breathe? Everything is free my friend. The only reason there are any conflicts in this world, any problems. Is from greed. From egocentric thinking. If people ever came together and escaped the mire of the lower mind, the potential is infinite.
You're blatantly disregarding the fact that man, as a biological concoction, is by nature, irrational and anti-democratic -- without any freedom of will. Equal rights? How is the ubermensch commensurable with the fraile and the timorous? Don't make me laugh with those rhetorical ideals you entertain and promote, Pickled; to be sure, you're adovacting them (your, let's all hold hands and skip together, ideals), either, in order to raise, that is, to deceive yourself into thinking that you've reached the "elevated" echelon of an "enlightened state" (which is all ego and self-righteous, self-obsessed narcissism), or, for recognition, i.e., a status, amongst the masses of the disenfranchised and credulous, i.e., for some sort of compensated glory. No matter, the Alpha will forever reign. There is no "over and above" the causally innate and physically determined will to surivive in the flesh; for, self-presevation is the first, and unconscious, law of nature. "The order of castes, the highest, the dominating law, is merely the ratification of an order of nature, of a natural law of the first rank, over which no arbitrary fiat, no "modern idea," can exert any influence. In every healthy society there are three physiological types, gravitating toward differentiation but mutually conditioning one another, and each of these has its own hygiene, its own sphere of work, its own special mastery and feeling of perfection. . . A high civilization is a pyramid: it can stand only on a broad base; its primary prerequisite is a strong and soundly consolidated mediocrity. . . Injustice never lies in unequal rights. It lies in the claim of equal rights. . . What is bad? But I have already answered: all that proceeds from weakness, from envy, from revenge. . ." If people ever came together and escaped the mire of the lower mind Who are you to say what's intrinsically "lower" as opposed to what's intrinsically "higher", huh? There are no permanent polarities, right? All is one, in the whole, and without separation or qualitative differentiation, right? Oh, pardon me, Pickled, I forgot, your spirit is just so lofty and you are just so refined, oh, excuse me, I forgot that you were so "enlightened". What's your imaginary and illusionary "cloud 9" like? Please, go on about it, I know how you like to think that people should listen to your ideas..
I don't disregard anything. Except for everything made up. I'm not going to read your lengthy diatribes. Your mind is more confused and mangled than it has ever been. Why waste away in confusion? Why create delusions? Reality is in front of your face and it's beyond words. Don't try throwing the shakles of your words around this reality. You spend an eternity searching for the ineffable. Using words like, "non-material". You make it seem like there is a reality beyond your experience. That there is something about reality that we can capture, experience and have insight into, that lies in logic and reasoning. Fool. Those are the tools of the brain. Those are not mind. If you want to look for truth then kneel to truth and throw off your garments. First purify yourself in the waters. Like being babptized. Become clean. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=j9XaU_nwL8GXyATokIHIBQ&url=http://users.libero.it/seza/bodhidharma.pdf&cd=1&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHVEca5xgZFL8lB0FiqEFE-jzL2Kw&sig2=1ON9pN5-MrLWEsoLv6QHiA
Lol, you didn't see what I did there, did you? I mean, if you were to truly understand, at least half of, the implications of the thought you disclose on GC, then, maybe, only maybe, you might have. And, no, Pickled, I'm not angry or disgruntled, rather lively if I do so myself -- have you not come to know me by now? Anywhooter, how have you been, yaar?
Its not that I think capitalisms is bad. I just feel like the government is to busy controlling people instead of controlling the corparations that are doing the real harm. Take wall-mart for example. these people treat their employees horribly. you are lucky to get paid decent and even luckier to get more than 20 hours a week. As it stands right now capitalists have free range over what they can give and take from people. I really think the system needs to be ran better. I am all for people getting what they work for, but I am against people working for nothing. if you want to run a giant corporation then do it. if you want to just live and work 40 hours a week then you should be able to do that and get what you work for. not saying people should get all kinds of hand outs but people are getting taken advantage of right now.
But there IS such think as scarcity. There is no such thing as free energy. Maybe an overabundance of energy (but this leads to overconsumption) The only way you can meet everyone's needs is if you enforce population control. This would also be morally wrong. So maybe its best to learn from.nature and let humans.compete? Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
What about incentivised communism? Like everyone needs are met if they work but people can move up with merit Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
To OP; poverty has been the normality for humans for thousands of years. Capitalism has allowed that number to shrink considerably. It will never be perfect, but considering that it was the normality of our existence to now something that a much lesser number of people go thru is what makes capitalism the greatest economic philosophy ever invented.
I can say donuts allowed that number to shrink. Capitalism is not the greatest economic philosophy ever invented just because that some people consider our current conditions to be better than past conditions. It's the same shit, different texture naw'mean?
Michael Tellinger founder of the Ubuntu movement had a political party and was running for president in Africa this past election. They believe in living in a society without money and free energy. The zeitgeist movement & Venus project support a resource based economy. Would recommend anyone who's interested in finding an alternative economic system to look them up. In the future capitalism will be looked upon as something from the dark ages.
Us capitalism doesnt work. Austrian style or Chicago school capitalism does. Don't bash capitalism based on the Us. Since when was the US a depiction of capitalism? Get real.