I somewhat recently read in 'The Perennial Philosophy' by Aldoux Huxley something to this effect. Many people experience 'union with the divine ground,' or some sort of high spiritual state or stage towards enlightenment or however you would like to say it, who lose it because it was used primarily for the bliss it brings, and also not properly acknowledging the infinite behind it, instead thinking of it in terms of your self. That is an elaboration of something he said, and how I took it. Anyways, it kind of stuck with me. I've said ad nauseum that I've felt very 'normal' for a while, after being in extremely high spiritual states, off and on anyways, for quite a while. Nor first of all, 'normal' doesn't have the same negative connotations for me that it used to. It's occurred to me that if you look upon normalcy disparagingly, you're saying that the great majority of the population is basically fucking up, ignorant or some such thing, and you're one of a select minority who is on the right track. This idea really underlies most spirituality if you really honestly think about it, and if you do think about it you may find that it is quite an un-spiritual idea. Very judgmental and ego-centric. This was the thought behind a thread I made somewhat recently, which I titled in a way that kinda summed up the idea; 'Real spirituality is not spirituality at all.' If we're discounting the majority of humanity as basically 'un-spiritual,' well, spirituality just lost all meaning. Any real spirituality would underlie the human condition, universally. Anyways, back on topic. Well, I guess the thread has two topics now, really. lol. But back to the original topic. What do you think of this idea, that people who experience real genuine high states of spiritual consciousness, and lose it, it may be perhaps because you lost sight of its greater purpose and source in pursuit of self-pleasure and self-importance?
I disagree. If one sees things, that person is likely to point them out. To exist conceptually, and take a place in the collective of humanity, one is labelled in order to understand. If one speaks of their own experiences, one's that are unexperienced, or contrary to, the average persons experience. Then they must assume an identity particular to what they represent. To call yourself spiritual in order to assert your position in a hierarchical sense is false. To call yourself spiritual as an extension of your self expression is true.
I can relate to this idea through experience as it describs much of the spiritual journey I have taken. And lately I have been extremely unspiritual in pursuit of self-pleasure and self-importance. But I think a lot of the journey is the fact that you find it, lose it, and find it again.
This is how I've thought a lot. But then here is the question. Well, if you 'lose it,' and you don't have a sense of motivation and passion towards spiritual things, do you just 'go with the flow' and stop trying to force it? In a way 'go with the flow' is the spiritual message, yet in not trying again and again to pursue spirituality whose to say you might not just sink deeper and deeper into the mundane, and is that a retreat from what we are supposed to do spiritually? I can't deny wanting to 'find it' again, and yet I think perhaps we are supposed to see the value in all kinds of experience. Although I must admit I have a deep longing for their to be spiritual purpose, the idea of that not existing could be extremely disheartening to me. So perhaps we are supposed to see the value in normalcy...or perhaps it is a 'preferable' state that we should cultivate. That's really the question isn't it? And is it something cultivated or is it something that just comes to us?
It seems to me that while we might feel the high, the connection, which in a way takes us out of the world into our own private space of experience, we cannot really sustain it, nor are we meant to. The idea is to live here, now, in the present. To awaken the normal aspects of the self by accepting, perhaps even believing, that one must give the same importance to how we live in the valley as we did when we felt ourselves on the mountain top. If life is one big whole, then there is no one state, one way, of experiencing it. There are many ways of experiencing now that make things feel positive or negative, and in most cases that should be guide enough as to whether we're doing it the right way for us. I've gone through intense feelings of being connected, and similar feelings of being apart. Knowing there is more and experiencing it profoundly, to not sure what I know and having to accept that. Finding a middle way seems to be the key. Rather than walking around carrying a sense of 'knowing', deciding that only this is spiritual and feeling it as such, there is a need to let it go, as there is a danger of thinking we have it all figured out. What we are we are, what we need to know we'll know, but only when we need to know it. If there's nothing there, then we don't need to have it there, not at this time or at any time. There is no 'experiencing it like it was' state. And because that is true, if there is a feeling of something missing, which makes you long for what is no longer here, it stops you from moving forward, as you are now caught inside a judgment of what life is supposed to be like. If there seems to be no meaning to it now, there will be again, once you stop needing to find it. This just says that there is no real acceptance of what is actually here, and in not accepting it, you are saying something must therefore be wrong. By definition this cannot be true.
Spirituality is a way of living..there's things you can experience..(kundalini) but it all comes down to how you live your life..Give back to this Earth in some capacity..Rest in the quiet....this part is a personal relationship with your mind, in a sense...and you may have that experience you're looking for..just be quiet during times of your day..and listen. What has helped me a lot is seeing how things are just not coincidence....I guess this would be faith. There are aspects of reflecting (Buddhist) that fascinate me..as well as understanding what goes on in the mind..in a way that is also spirituality..self-discovery. *To be more clear-You are the Soul Soul does not relate to mind; mind relates to soul. It's one-way traffic. ~Yogi Bahjan
I've felt blissful states, but I wouldn't even point to them and say "this is the reason for my spiritual, these are the ends I aspire towards." Spirituality might lead to blissful states, but these are just a marker. Catharsis is the greatest aid in progress. It is realizations of one's own mistakes and failings which, so powerfully, shakes one's reality. Shattering delusions, often painfully, and pushing one out of the slump. As painful as it is, it's exhilerating. I was studying in a hermetic mystery school at one point and it spoke of how each person progresses according to an element. Fire progresses fastest, in leaps and bounds, often violently and uncomfortably. Blissful states are awesome, but the goal should never be to cultivate them, that will destroy your practice. The aim should result in bliss, bliss should not be the aim.
Other people's spiritual relationships are none of my business and vice versa. If they lose theier spirituality, they deal with it, not me. I don't know about spirituality for others i only know about mine. It's really none of my business.
\t Spirituality, IMHO ....... is a practice to achieve a means to an end. "End" is an incorrect term ..... in that plateaus are reached and surpassed by continued practice of a method, i.e. Raja Yoga. As the perceived universe is infinite, so is the True Self, which can never be destroyed. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form. We cannot lose our spirituality, however we can forget our true nature if our sense perceptions are matter bound. Ego tends to draw our attention apart from the Self, causing the illusion of individuality or separateness. Such is the nature of Maya. \t \t
Well jeeze I guess everybody took my answers. Life's a roller coaster and you are to maintain its workings to give it a smooth ride. It's very important to note why you lost that state of being in the first place. it's telling of what you need to do to progress. There's a fine line between being there and not, desire and letting go play a huge role.
IMO you don't lose your spirituality. Such as the poster who said he is going for self importance/self pleasure stuff. It's not the correct path of spirituality but it doesn't make you lose it. You still remember what you've learned. For instance if I stopped learning about science and went back to studying stocks I wouldn't be learning science anymore. I would still have that knowledge and it could help me out somehow with stocks. But the two are not the same. "I'm to drunk, to taste this chicken" -Talladega
and thank you....It's a very peaceful experience, isn't it...? Great to start your day off like that...Helps you know that life involves more than just going through only being fed on external experience...there is a deeper way of being and it involves your Soul.