Pot Shortages Could Be Dire At Washingtons Stores Lol

Discussion in 'Marijuana News' started by snoopdog6502, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. Did you not read the story I posted. That is far from a free market.
     
  2.  
    lol, blind posting. Hard for prices to drop to anywhere near reasonable when you have each stage of the process tacking on 25% in taxes along with their profits. Good luck balancing out 3 stages tacking on their profits (grower, processor, and retailer) and 25% each, then taxes at the register.
     
  3.  
     
    ya...sorta seems like they could drop the price down at the initial sale from the growers...expenses for growing are a tax deduction after all, the farmers don't need to get rich overnight...and the math for the cost to grow is easy to do.
    Artificially inflating markups based on black market prices to gouge and get rich quick is part of the problem...typical political games and corruption are the rest.
     
    Give it time, the restrictions will be removed, and the CO model will become the standard.
     
  4.  
    I agree. Ok, kind of a rant/thinking out loud here. LOL, very baked too, so if I goofed up and didnt make sense somewhere, point it out to me and Ill fix/clarify.
     
    Unfortunately, these people are only in the recreational market in hopes of getting rich. I'm not opposed to a recreational system even with me not needing to use it. I'd love for everyone to be able to buy and consume cannabis as they please (pretty sure most of us want this). My main issue is the expected prices. On the rare occasion that I even have to pay as a medical cannabis patient, it's around $5 a gram for quality cannabis. The kind of quality that I guarantee would run $20+ a gram easily at these recreational stores. While I consume for a different purpose and consume far more than most people, this still isn't fair IMO. They're saying prices could be as low as $12 a gram (smh) and I think that should be the absolute MOST.....and only AFTER any taxes are tacked on. Even whispering $30 a gram when supplies are limited for flowers that may not have even been flushed properly makes me sick. I can get a gram of some award winning BHO with <25ppm [parts per million] of residual solvents for that, lol.
     
    I know damn well that we won't see a day anytime soon here in Washington State where they just throw away these recreational store day dreams and let adults cultivate their own. The stores will never be even close to as successful as they were hoping when even tourists could be walking down the street and simply raise their voice and ask who's selling weed. I bet it wouldn't take more than 3 times doing this in less than 5 minutes for someone to signal to them and sell a bag. I mean, what would you do? If you were looking to purchase a 1/4 ounce on a trip, would you rather pay $25 a gram through the store for cannabis that is decent for a total of $175 or would you ignore the very slight possibility of being caught purchasing cannabis from someone off the street at the rate of $10 a gram + slight discount for a 1/4 at a total of $65? Is the tax stamp worth $110 on a vacation? Unless you're waving your non-tax stamped baggy around/consuming in public or an officer sees the exchange/deal directly you're not going to get caught. Usually, Im the type to pay a little more if need be for peace of mind, but $110 on 7 grams is a bit much. The difference alone is almost double the street price total, lol. Buy off the street, take a few hits and then with the money you saved, take you children to Chuck-E-Cheese to run around, maybe the wife out to a nice restaurant, a couple new console video games, a cheap glass bong, head from a hooker, hell, the possibilities are endless. You get my point...
     
    And to think that they want to force medical cannabis patients into using these stores....and trying to say that they're doing us a favor by dropping the tax at the register like it's some sort of miraculous gift from God and we should be lining up for that opportunity yesterday when in reality we'd still be paying 75% or more in taxes on the product and also on the 3 stages of profit margins. Shit.
     
    We could just make things fucking simple and let the people consume a harmless plant with less rules that are easier to understand and the state not trying to put their fucking hands on the people's money for a plant that they have no business selling anyway. If the state can sell cannabis, the people should be able to as well so that there's competition to bring the prices down, have cleaner/better products to choose from and establish a market that finds a middle ground where growers can make a little extra on top of recovering their cultivation costs and the consumer isn't having to pay 25% of their monthly income to enjoy a plant that makes life a little less stressful while putting a smile on your face.
     
     
    My Day-Dream, Hopeful System (won't happen since the state doesn't get paid, but this is how it should be, if not even less rules)
     
    Recreational: 3 plants in flower at any given time. Unlimited plants in vegetative stage or clones. Anyone 21+ able to consume. No limit on plant size. If you want to start 6 plants, throw them into veg and flip 3 of them to bloom after 2 months and leave the other 3 to veg for another 2 months and flip them when the first 3 are done, go for it. If you want to put 50,000 watts on a single plant, no matter how big of a waste it is, go for it. Do whatever you want to make those 3 plants ideal for you.
     
    Medical: 15 plants in flower at any given time. Unlimited plants in vegetative stage or clones. Anyone 18+ able to consume and anyone under 18 with a doctor's recommendation AND parental consent (parents are responsible for creating rules for their child so that they're not walking around with ounces on them and the cannabis getting into the hands of non-medical teenagers). No limit on plant size (same as recreational). Would love for there to be some sort of perk/rule for medical patients that if they wanted to grow some primarily CBD strains as well, they could add an additional 15 plants to their garden for a total of 30. Ratio of 15:1 type of CBD with no more than 1-1.5% of THC. This seems impossible though to come up with some sort of system that isn't invasive. I know I'm day dreaming on that one even more than usual, but if there were any reasonable way for that to work, it would be an amazing option for patients. Last key point is dropping the the DUID for medical patients who consume all the time so long as they can still pass a simple test to make sure they're not impaired to the point that what they consumed puts others at a significant risk. I know medical patients who consume a lot of cannabis a day and function just fine behind the wheel. Hell, I bet if they didn't consume for 5 days, they'd still have more than 5 nanograms per ML in their blood. Meanwhile, I know that I'm not a very good driver after I've consumed due to my reaction time slowing down. Everyone is different whether it's tolerance, body chemistry, what have you. Thankfully, common sense and self control are still present with cannabis as opposed to alcohol.
     
    Drop the taxes significantly for recreational. Not entirely, but a lot. This would encourage people to actually use these stores a lot rather than take their business to the black market. Medical patients might actually as well if they're in-between harvests, want to browse and know some of that money will go to helping the state they live in. Instead of 84% total in taxes, drop that down to 30% (including sales tax). I bet that 54% sacrificed would be LESS than the amount they'd gain due to increase of customers, wider array of products purchased, and of that wider array there'd be a larger quantity as well.
     
    Also, boost the maximum amount you can legally possess. Why just one ounce? Bump that up to 4 (1/4 Pound) and keep harsh punishments for supplying to minors or taking cannabis out of the state. Let everyone smoke tough if they want and show the world a wonderful place where smiles are worn nearly as much as clothing.
     
  5. I think you need to do some math.  In this case 25% + 25% + 25% + state sales tax does not add up to the total percentage paid by the consumer at the store. 
     
  6. #26 Pie Romania, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2014
     
    I think you need to actually do some more thinking.
     
    Grower wants to get $3 per gram for their product. In order to do this, they add on an additional 25% so that when it's taken, they get their $3. So they charge $3.75 to the Processor. Processor wants a certain amount of profit as well, so after they account for that, they too add 25% to it so that once it's taken, they have what they want. Same for the retailer. Then, usually different cities in the state have different amounts of sales tax. Seattle, for example is 9.5%, however, it seems as if sales tax with be 6.5% state wide.
     
    Oh, and don't forget to account for the sin tax at an additional 44% at the register as a nice cherry on top.
     
     
    So, you were saying? While all these taxes arent added on at the end, they do a great job of boosting recreational cannabis to insane amounts. 25% of $3 is only 75 cents, but when there's 3 of these 25%'s accounted for at different stages, minimums accepted by these people cultivating, processing and selling, plus sales/sin taxes, who's left to pay the prices that have been conjured up by this system? Oh yes, the people who want to legally purchase from a store.
     
    $3 + 25% = $3.75
    $3.75 + $3 for their work/profits [$6.75] + 25% = $8.44 [Rounded up]
    $8.44 + $4 for their store/profits [$12.44] + 25% = $15.55
     
    Then at the register $15.55 + 6.5% Sales Tax = $16.56 + 44% Sin Tax = $23.85
     
    That was with me being a bit conservative on the profits at each stage too as they'd probably mark up profits a bit more since they have a business to keep afloat and employees to pay. I may have the last 2 taxes backwards as well, but this isn't intended to be perfectly accurate. Rather, give you an idea of what the fuck I'm referring to. Each stage isn't going to eat that 25% from the profits they want, so they'll tack it on so they still are left with what they wanted in the first place. Not their problem....its just passed on to the consumer and they wipe their hands of it.
     
    So, there's my math. Not right I'm sure, but it's there nonetheless. Where's yours? How do you expect this system to work for everyone in the process of creating the product to keep afloat, but not have the consumers paying $20-30 a gram for flowers? I don't even want to think about the cost of concentrates.
     
  7. #27 morange, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2014
    Jesus! LEGAL weed is that expensive over there? WTF I'm on the east coast and I pay less per ounce than west coast legal states. Really WTF. How do they ever expect to sell that shit for 200+ an ounce. Around here 220 for an ounce of commercial bud is standard, and 250 for someones homegrown that was taken care of very well. An eighth is 40-55 depending on who you know. And I live in Boston..
     
    EDIT: I literally cannot wrap my head around 25-30 dollars a gram for flowers. As a grower I feel ashamed that people are whoring this plant out so much for profit. It doesn't even cost 30 bucks to grow an ounce indoors.
     
  8.  
    Agreed. Meanwhile, medical pays between $160-$180 an ounce, give or take a bit and that's for high quality smoke. This is why they want to force medical patients into the recreational stores and are trying to feed us bullshit about them doing patients a favor and dropping the sales tax (6.5%), lol. Many of these people cant even afford cannabis at medical prices so they simply grow their own and have the luxury of knowing exactly what was used in the cultivation process. Some of these people have weakened immune systems, so chancing their health on mass produced cannabis that may contain residual chemicals and was hurried through the growth process doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
     
  9. I think you're doubling the taxes.  Your own quote has the proper info - the consumer ends up paying 44% tax on the weed plus general sales tax.
     
    Quote
     
    Washington: For consumers, the effective tax rate is 44%, according to the Washington Liquor Control Board. The sticker price includes a 25% tax on producers and a 25% tax on processors plus 25% added to the price of the product. Buyers also pay an additional 6.5% state sales tax.
     
  10.  
    The 75% 25% at each stage. It's included in the prices and why the prices get as high as they do. How am I doubling anything? 25x3 is 75% of additional taxes throughout the process, not 75% added at the end. I don't know what's so difficult for you to understand?
     
    If a grower wants $3 per gram, do you think they're going to let the processor buy it for $3 when there's going to be 25% taxed? No, they're going to add an additional sum so that after it's accounted for, they still get what they wanted. If you wanted to put a buy it now price on an item on ebay and would not settle for less than $500 at the bare minimum, total.....wouldn't you add on the fees ebay is charging you to sell the item for as well? So, say it costs you $20 for the ad (no idea what it costs, just using a simple number). You put the buy it now price at $520 so after the fees are taken, you receive the $500 you wanted.
     
    Due to this, the costs are going to go up a bit each time and the total sum is going to be larger. 44% sin tax + 6.5% sales is going to be a much bigger difference on an item being sold for $20 rather than $12. Not trying to be rude either, I just don't know how else I can explain this more clearly. The prices will be high because of the tax structure inflating an already more expensive product thanks to 3 tiers of profit margins. Even without ANY taxes, cannabis would still be noticeably more expensive. The taxes just end up making over-priced cannabis an astronomical joke.
     
  11. I guess you can't tell a man something he already knows.  Read over what you wrote.  You had it right up until you through in your "sin tax" at the register - that tax was already included in the three-tier costs.
     
    "So, you were saying? While all these taxes arent added on at the end, they do a great job of boosting recreational cannabis to insane amounts. 25% of $3 is only 75 cents, but when there's 3 of these 25%'s accounted for at different stages, minimums accepted by these people cultivating, processing and selling, plus sales/sin taxes, who's left to pay the prices that have been conjured up by this system? Oh yes, the people who want to legally purchase from a store.
     
    $3 + 25% = $3.75
    $3.75 + $3 for their work/profits [$6.75] + 25% = $8.44 [Rounded up]
    $8.44 + $4 for their store/profits [$12.44] + 25% = $15.55
     
    Then at the register $15.55 + 6.5% Sales Tax = $16.56 + 44% Sin Tax = $23.85"
     
  12.  
    I readily admitted I could be mistaken. Not worried about it. Regardless, that sin tax is hiking up the price and anyone who wants to consume cannabis from these stores has to pay it. That's if there's even enough cannabis to meet demand, although I don't think demand will be as high as they anticipate with prices up where they'll be. So, if the 44% is included, just flip the sales and sin tax, right? The result is still the same thing. If it's "included" in a different fashion, then all stages will just bump up what they require so they're still getting what they wanted and it's still passed to the consumer, so while my explanation is changed in structure, the end result and point I was trying to make are the same...
     
  13. #33 Sgtstadanko707, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2014
    They did this so they could say I told you this didn't work. Black Market still thrives and peoe still go to jail for not buying state grown weed. Same shit. Different smell.

    There is a reason every politician says we will see how the experiment works in co and wa. So they can say Didn't work there then no legal weed here.
     
  14. Does the WA liquor control board tax alcohol in the same manner? Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? Tax and regulate like alcohol?
     
  15.  
    So far all indications are Colorado is a smashing success. Perhaps that is the model to go with.
     
  16. I don't think they passed it that way like most should.
    I'm in ca and they are trying to "regulate it like wine", go figure wine capital of the USA.
     
  17. But the black market is still thriving and people are dying from weed. Not my words.
     
  18.  
     
    ya..we know who says that stuff..
    [​IMG] :laughing:
     
  19. You've got this whole thing tied in a knot.  There is no "sin tax" - just the tax at each stage and sales tax and it adds up to about 44% of the sales price.  Dude, if you want to rant about price, you need to realize a couple of things - hard operating costs and taxes are fixed, the only thing that considerably varies the price is the amount of profit the industry makes (greed vs competition). 
     
  20. Dont kid yourself, Smokes, booze and weed are taxed at enormous rates.
     
    Its a fucking sin tax.
     

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