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Cannabis Oil And Chronic Liver Disease

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by Quads, May 31, 2014.

  1. #1 Quads, May 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2014
    I wonder if there are people here who have had success treating liver disease, hepatitis, fibrosis/cirrhosis with Rick Simpson oil?
     
    I personally have (stable) Autoimmune hepatitis with compensated cirrhosis and I want to try Rick Simpson oil to treat it and maybe reverse some damage if possible.
     
    However, scientific studies I have found, unfortunately are conflicting to say the least:
     
    Studies in rats and mice, show significant reduction in fibrosis and cirrhosis with treatments either deactivating the CB1 receptor and or activating the CB2 receptor.
    Another study showed a significant immune modullating effect of rats with autoimmune hepatitis by administration of CBD.
     
     
    Now here is the conflicting part:
     
    French studies on humans with Hepatitis C show quite the opposite. Fibrosis progression scores were significantly higher in the groups of daily MJ users (smokers) compared to groups of weekly and non MJ smokers. The researchers state that CB1 activation by THC is responsible for the rapid advancement of fibrosis to cirrhosis.
     
     
    I am very much confused and disappointed by these studies and they are withholding me to start Cannabis oil treatment.
     
    So I wonder what the experiences are of others with chronic liver disease, hepatitis, fibrosis or cirrhosis with Rick Simpson Cannabis Oil?
     
    Did your liver histology and/or blood work improve?
     
     
    Thanks.

     
  2. #2 Patent #6630507, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
    Hey just thought this would be helpful until someone with personal experience arrives. Your post led me to learn something, so I thought I'd share. Hopefully someone with more insight will come along to help you :) It covers fibrosis, cirrhosis and hep C.
     
    http://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/cirrhosis-and-cannabis/
     
  3. Cannabis oil is extracted from the seed which comes from the cannabis plant. Many patients who used this oil have been of the opinion that it improves many conditions and ailments. It is also important to note that you must consult a physician before using it.
     
     
     
  4. the oil mentioned is made from the flowers not the seeds. both have a place in the  big picture arsenal though
     
  5. #5 Quads, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
    Too bad nobody with experience with the oil for liver disease has replied yet.
     
    I haven't discussed cannabis ingestion with my consultant yet, my next appointment is due in een few months, but to be honest, I have more faith in doing my own research, my doctor just wants to give me pills.
    My doctor doesn't believe in anything that doesn't come from a big pharma concern, and they had me on steroids and chemo for more than a decade, when I found out through my own research that Gluten was the cause of my hepatitis, and the inflammation went away when I stopped eating gluten and ate a cleaner diet. My doctor never told me this, in fact he even denied it when I confronted him with it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. I'm sorry you're having trouble getting experienced advice. Hopefully more research and studies will be done in the near future to correct these contradictions. Do you live in a place that has a medical cannabis program? 
     
  7. Its ironic that someone is posting ITT with the username patent 6630507 .. Because that's the exact research backed patent that established cannabinoids as Neuroprotectants and antioxidants.

    It also explains why it treats Alzheimers and neuro degenerative diseases. Because of its rich antioxidant effects. But the full extent of this is that cannabis mitigates all oxidative stress/free radical damage. Which of course is the root of most diseases including cancer. Also premature aging.

    These strong protective antioxidants are separate from the modulating effects of the endocannabinoid system. That would also help bring things systematically back into balance.

    Given that many liver diseases are related to inflammatory/free radical damage... I have a hard time seeing how cannabis oil would not benefit the situation.

    There could have been other factors leading to the negative study. Poor control group. What if aside from mj use they were heavy cig smokers and boozers?

    The established science behind cannabinoids, terpenoids etc suggests there should be great benefit. If anyone has legitimate knowledge that somehow pure, whole plant cannabis oil would not help heal this issue... It seems to be a pretty unscientific statement, but would love to hear whyif mistaken.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. #8 Quads, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
    Thanks, but I'm positive sooner or later somebody shows up. :)
    Yes I live in the Netherlands, there is a medical cannabis program, but you need a prescription and I haven't discussed an enrollment yet.
    Most common way to obtain cannabis is from coffeeshops or homegrowers.
     
    Edit:
    @Hassel
    I'll go and dig up the studies, this will take a few moments.
     
  9. #9 Quads, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
    Studies against cannabis (smoking):
     
    In humans, with hepatitis C and some variables.
     
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20460921
     
    "Data from our group also indicate that tonic activation of CB1 receptors is responsible for progression of liver fibrosis, whereas CB2 receptors display anti-fibrogenic properties. The clinical relevance of these findings is supported by studies in patients with chronic hepatitis C indicating that daily cannabis use is an independent predictor of both fibrosis and steatosis severity."
     
    http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085%2807%2902116-6/fulltext
     
    "Our results identify daily cannabis smoking as a novel independent predictor of steatosis severity during CHC and strongly argue for a steatogenic role of the cannabinoid system. Cannabis use should be discouraged in patients with CHC."
     
     
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.20733/full
     
    "In conclusion, daily cannabis smoking is significantly associated with fibrosis progression during CHC. Patients with ongoing CHC should be advised to refrain from regular cannabis use."
     
     
     
    These are studies in favour of cannabis use.
    However done in Mice and Rats and not by smoking.
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3069975/
     
    "This study demonstrates for the first time that MDSCs play a critical role in attenuating acute inflammation in the liver, and that agents such as CBD, which trigger MDSCs through activation of TRPV1 vanilloid receptors may constitute a novel therapeutic modality to treat inflammatory diseases."
     
    http://www.nature.com/cddis/journal/v2/n6/full/cddis201152a.html
     
    "We propose that CBD, by selectively inducing death of activated HSCs, represents a potential therapeutic agent for the treatment of liver fibrosis."
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828293/
     
    "Our data demonstrate that targeting cannabinoid receptors using exogenous or endogenous cannabinoids and use of FAAH inhibitors may constitute novel therapeutic modalities to treat immune-mediated liver inflammation."
     
     
     
    So in conclusion:
    Administration of THC and CBD show promising results in treating hepatitis, fibrosis and autoimmune diseases.
     
    But in human studies with hepatitis C and Cannabis Smoking seem to show the opposite.
     
  10. #10 Gemstoner, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
     
    The French study that you reference has been invalidated. See article about recent Canadian study. The reason prior studies showed increased symptoms among cannabis smokers is likely because those with the worst HVC are the ones who use medical cannabis. Something like 47% of fibro sufferers smoke cannabis! The French study was not double blind, but simply looked at people with HVC who smoke cannabis.
     
  11.  
    The conflicting results relative to Hep. C don't really conflict.
     
    Within the assorted treatment groups stage of disease is the issue.  In early disease Cannabis reduces viral load on the patient and protects the liver from developing the fibrosis.  In later stage studies where the patient already has fibrosis Δ9-THC makes the fibrosis worse.
     
    CBD seems to be protective once the patient has fibrosis as well as the CB2 selective cannabinoids like the terpene known as β-caryophyllene.  Re-balancing the endocannabinoid precursor fats increasing Omega-3 fat and reducing Omega-6 fat in combination with the cannabinoids listed above looks like it would provide the best probability of reversing an autoimmune liver disease with fibrosis, if it can in fact be done.
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=%22Hepatic+Fibrosis%22+%22%CF%89-3%22
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. For anyone particularly interested, here is an NIH page linking 220 studies regarding the endocannabinoid system and liver disease. One certainty is that the endocannabinoid system plays some role in liver disease and even according to NIH, cannabis is likely therapeutic.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. #13 Mongo Mann, Mar 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2015
    Recently they found that the reason for the increased advancement of fibrosis in the patients in those studies was not due to Increased Cannabis usage, but instead it is now believed that the patients merely increased their usage of Cannabis due to the natural progression of the fibrosis only trying to alleviate or decrease the syptoms of the advanced liver damage and/or fibrosis. That the Cannabis was not to blame at all for said advancment. I can tell you that I have been through both the interferon & ribavirin and more recently, the ribavirin and sovaldi. Both times I went to "undetectable" during treatment, but sadly, The virus was back within 6 months after treatment. I have type 2 and they say it is the easiest to cure,,, They also say that up to 10 % of patients are deemed "Non-Responsive" and I am one of those 10 %. I use Cannabis every day now, Both vaporized and eaten, I also Juice the fresh Raw Plant. I was told I had colo-recal cancer and treated myself by ingesting massive daily doses of Cannabis Oil, (up to 1 gram daily), for 120 days, (Almost Double the Normal Treatment Time), and 8 months after that treatment, I showed no signs of the cancer. I believe it was the Cannabis Oil because I was on no other treatment than the Cannabis Oil. I am willing to stake my life on it anyway, because I am about to make another batch of Cannabis Oil so I can do another treatment because my viral load Greatly decreased during my last Cannabis Oil Treatment. The science is out there, and if you Google Cannabis Oill you will find all kinds of info on recent studies, Because Legalization and Medical Marijuana have created more opportunity for those studies. Should you need info on how to make Cannabis Oil, Cannabutter or anything else Cannabis related, Just do a search on Youtube. Good Luck Sir.[​IMG] Weed, Peace and Chicken Grease, TTFN
     
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  14. From the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Disease about Autoimmune Hepatitis:
    http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/liver-disease/autoimmune-hepatitis/Pages/facts.aspx
     
    "People with autoimmune hepatitis generally respond to standard treatment and the disease can be controlled in most cases. Long-term response to treatment can stop the disease from getting worse and may even reverse some damage to the liver."
     
    While Quads gives good points and counter-points to the evidence, the negative results in humans is concerning, even if the studies may be ultimately flawed. The question shouldn't be whether cannabis benefits the condition, but whether it is superior to or adds benefits to the success of current standard treatment. Unfortunately, until the US government reschedules cannabis, the best "gold standard" studies (e.g., a randomized control trial) comparing cannabis to standard treatment simply won't be conducted - at least not in the US.
     
    Quads: It's a shame if your physician didn't consider that gluten might affect your condition, as the link above explicitly states that people with autoimmune hepatitis also might suffer from celiac disease. I wonder if this is your general practitioner, or a specialist. A specialist with experience treating autoimmune digestive diseases might be more appropriate. 
     
  15. #15 Gemstoner, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2015
    It's important to note that the studies finding negative effects looked at smoking cannabis, not ingesting concentrated cannabis oil. Also, the studies were merely surveys of sick people who happened to smoke cannabis flower; and there is no proof that smoking caused or exacerbated the illnesses. Most claims about cannabis curing disease refer to ingesting oil, not smoking flower. There seems to be some amazing benefits from ingesting high quality, full-plant cannabis oil at dose saturation levels; and there are no contradicting studies or surveys.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. #16 Galaxy420, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
    you might want to message or quote their post as it is from a while ago and they may not see your response otherwise...
     
    isn't it funny how tests are done to determine medical viability for application purposes only to find the tests involved a smoked medium. how crazy to assume a smoked substance will quantify medical results though the prohibishitners eat that shit up blamingf cannabis for the bad results!  even funnier, even when smoked cannabis is still a medicine- go figure
     
  17. I have Nash liver disease, stage 4 liver failure, cirrhosis, I had anemia because I was having so much stomach bleeding, my immune system was completely shot, my clotting factor was almost non existent so if they did any operations I’d bleed out so I couldn’t get a liver transplant, I had to be drained of fluid build up every other day, was in the hospital for about 8 months with a day or two out every couple weeks, my meld score was 33, I was too weak to stand or walk, I was down to 122 pounds from 265 when I got sick and was on 60mg of oxycodone a day, my liver special doctor Richard Manch out st Joe’s in Phoenix gave me 2 weeks to live. I started smoking about a gram and a half a day flower and and my meld score is now 8 which is 2 points from the normal of 6, I weigh 191 pounds, clotting factor is normal, immune system is normal, no longer need a transplant at all, haven’t been to the hospital once since I started using, not once, completely off oxycodone and my liver specialist says my liver has regenerated. He said he’d never seen anything like it before. It’s been 8 months since I was gave 2 weeks to live. It was a miracle dr Manch said.So I’d think RSO would work even better as it’s a concentrated form of flower, just make sure you use RSO not just a thc oil, theirs a difference.


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  18. I would really like to ask you some questions. My best friend is going in the transplant list. He has cirrhosis of the liver too. I would love to help him get through this with the RSO
     
  19.  
  20. this is an old thread... you could post on the open board and get more results Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications
     

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