i live in a state where short barreled shotguns are legal to own if properly registered. i have always debated owning a gun for home defense, but currently see no real need. however, i have been contemplating whether or not there is any reason to favor a sbs over standard for home defense. since it would be only used in the most dire of situations, i see the spread as the only main difference, although perhaps a big one. on one hand, i assume that if the target is hit at all they should be incapacitated enough to eliminate the threat they pose. i am not sure of the spread increase on sbs vs standard but that seems to be a huge plus. on the flip side, i dont know how this would play into castle doctrine. i am not exactly sure what constitutes immediate danger or non lethal force. is it possible to fire bullets and have it be considered non lethal? if the intention is to disable but not kill, is that acceptable? (like a shot to the leg or something) if so, and the intent was to disable but ended up killing (which increased spread will make more likely) would that then not be covered by the doctrine? is it a bad idea to have a sbs because of this? does it come down to my lawyer? say a guy is unarmed but an immediate threat, or isnt an immediate threat but is accidentally killed. is it up to my word that he posed a threat? if it is dark, unknown if he is armed, he has been warned to leave, and he charges me, is lethal force justified even if accidental?
Home defense is unlikely to be a marksman contest A sbs seems more practical since in a life and death situation speed and mobility are.important Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Not enough info. Which state? Castle doctrines vary among states. I also don't believe the hassle of going SBS is worth it in your case. The paperwork takes months to process. You can't just go in a gun shop and buy a SBS off the wall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu0RwxaMU5k Get a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with some 00 buck and you'll be good for any human intruder.
Bummer.... what ever happened to the rite to keep and bear arms Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
im in wisconsin. if were talking about castle doctrine laws i want as much info as possible so dont just give shotgun specific. keep in mind i dont even feel any sort of need to own a gun, so the processing time is meaningless. it would purely be an issue of "is spread (and other issues i dont know about yet) worth the trade off of accuracy and other stuff? is there more appropriate weaponry if the sole intention is bare minimum, disable at all costs? with these factors in mind, am i better off with different defense methods? would it be wise to include specificity non lethal force like taser projectiles? is that even worth the risks in a home invasion situation? (which again is the sole purpose)
Another thing about SBS, the Title II laws are REALLY strict and detailed, almost requiring a law degree to understand. I recommend sticking with the tried and true 18" barrel shotgun. From a legal perspective, it's easier to understand. Considering this will be your first firearm, the headache and risks you take going Title II are too great. If you shoot somebody with a SBS, it will make your case harder unless you can afford a good lawyer. You also open yourself to random visits from the DOJ to make sure you're compliant. I don't know how indepth I can go as far as effectiveness on this forum, but I will say this. More spread = energy dispersed over larger area. Little pellets spread across the body. This might not stop the threat. One fat ass hole in their chest will. http://blog.nglawyers.com/2013/09/23/wisconsin-castle-law-explained/ http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/94 Wisconsin seems to have a reasonable castle doctrine. NEVER shoot to disable. NEVER shoot to kill. SHOOT to stop the threat of imminent death or bodily harm. Where you shoot them on their body is IRRELEVANT. Intent is IRRELEVANT. If you use a gun, you meant to stop the threat. Period. If you shoot someone in a situation that does not meet those guidelines, you will go to prison for a very long time. If lethal response is not required, do NOT grab a firearm. Doesn't matter if they are armed. What matters is the threat of death or great bodily harm. If such an incident were to occur, call the police and tell them that you shot someone in your home who posed a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm. And then tell them you want to talk to your lawyer. Don't tell them anything else. It can mean the difference between spending a couple nights in the station, or a couple decades in a penitentiary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
gotcha. i think the best solution is probably both non lethal and lethal force both readily available. soon ill be reading up on case law but its good to know more about how intent plays in. my go to home defense currently would probably be the bong i keep at my bedside lol. wonder how that would play in. feel like a good head smash would put most down pretty easy, and turns to sharp jagged glass after the initial hit. i think a combo of standard shotgun and taser is best probably. since the situation would pretty much only be "walk through my bedroom or children's bedroom door and die" i think me armed with non lethal force to confront and the wife with lethal to fall back on as last resort would probably be a defensible case.
I dont think those factors will matter much for simple home defense Any shotgun should be extremely deadly in thay scenario Have you seen kill bill? One dude used rock salt in his shotgun as a nonleathal shot. It was pretty cool Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Only benefit of the SBS in a Home defence sit. is it is easy to move through hall ways with it as opposed to an 18in barrel. Spread is a bad thing for HD. You are responsible for every projectile that comes out of your gun. You don't want a stray pellet to hit someone else. Shotguns give you a large range of lethal to less then lethal ammo. Personally I alaways leave 00 buck in mine with a couple slugs at the end(nothing is in the chamber, but a simple half pump can change that). Talk to your family, make a plan of what to do in that situation. Basically you have very similar laws to my state. My family is to retreat down the to the master bedroom, there is a long hall leading to that bedroom. Then we announce we are armed and the cops are on the way. Then if they try to enter such said bedroom. Then and only then is the gun to be used. Some advice a cop told me about HD situations with the castle doctrine. "If you do shoot, shoot to kill. You don't want it to turn into your word against a criminals, dead men don't tell tales. Only shoot once as in twice looks like your trying to kill". There is no other weapon that is as versatile\\devestating(at short range) as a shotgun that is legal for civilian use. A single shot of any buck shot will be more then enough to stop a person. Please, if you have kids in the house keep the gun locked up and the ammo in a seperate location. Also educate your kids that its not a toy. Take them shooting so they can see\\feel the power. Educate, educate, educate!
Ah kill bill. Make sure you get a katana for close encounters also remember when fighting ninjas to shoot where you think they are going to be not where they are. Also remember the Sand Castle Doctrine. DO NOT step on peoples Sand Castles EVER!
The best non lethal force with short barreled shotties would be some dragon's breath shells. Non lethal, especially at close range means, the poor bastard has missing limbs, and with dragon's breath hes also on fire.
Just put proximity mines (just like in goldeneye 64) all around the outside of your house! For real though I would recommend a 9mm pistol or something similar with hollowpoint rounds for home defense Hollowpoints fragment when they hit there target so in addition to totally annihilating the insides of whatever it hits in the most badass way imaginable, they are also more likely to not go through walls which is bad if there are others in the house.
It was a joke, or at least meant to be, since you cant really be non lethal with a short barrel or any barrel, even if with bean bag rounds, at close range, hitting center mass will cripple the rib cage, and the bone fragments go through all the soft inside tissue like lungs and heart. I seriously doubt op is serious, also i dont think dragons breath comes in a non lethal version, hence the 'breath' and the 'dragons'. Seriously, who cares if you burn down your house or your whole neighborhood, fuck em, get house insurance fuckers, dragon's breath is a bad ass invention + I would like nothing more then to read the news about a guy utilizing this type of ammo at close range.
If SBS interests you but the added paperwork makes it less then ideal.. Look into if Serbu's are legal in your state. WA doesn't allow SBS/SBR but because Serbu buys the action from........ Honestly it's been a while, I forget exactly why they are allowed but moral of the story is 6" barreled 2 +1 capacity shotguns are readily available with no extra paperwork vs any other "normal" firearm.