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Can only work while high - whats the problem? ADD? Bipolar? Please advise

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by haemo, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. #1 haemo, Apr 2, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    Hello, first post and all.
     
    TLDR;
    I think I have some sort of condition that cannabis affects in a positive way. I'm no psychologist, but it could be anything from ADD to asperger's. The following long post describes the issue I'm experiencing. 
     
    Summary:
    I am a programmer. And I can't get anything done without being high. I find it disturbing.
     
    But let me back up a bit.
    This is not a result of pot use or abuse. It has always been so, ever since I was a teen. Unless I'm absolutely engrossed by the subject matter, I've always had enormous trouble focusing on one particular topic. It's not that my mind would wander, it's that any task that I didn't spefically like was physically repelling, like the magnets of same polarity. The harder you try to get them together, the stronger the force repelling them. And once you got them together, they'd fly apart as soon as you let go of your grasp. 
     
    The only way I was able to focus on the needed task was by entering the elusive Zone. Also known as flow in psychology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) - a trance-like state where nothing existed but my thoughts and code.
     
    Getting to this moment took time however - an hour, maybe more of struggling with myself, fighting with what I can only describe as a wrenching, burning pain in my gut and an explosive, immediate necessity to move my arms and legs. I would fight the urge to stand up and do something different,to walk around, peer through the window, to clench my fists and grit my teeth, to jump, to tear off my clothes and run shouting.
     
    Then, once my body was calmed, I had to fight the urge to retreat inside of myself, replaying memories or imagining fantasies with my inner eye. After an hour of focusing, breathing and what could be described as meditation, I was finally able to silence the inner chaos and enter this trance-like state of productivity.
     
    The downside is that, this came with a strong sense of dissociation. While this allowed me to work well, understand, design and create complex systems, I was unable to have a normal conversation - and attempts at doing so would snap me back to reality, leaving me mentally exhausted and unable to return to work.
     
    Any attempts to break this flow of concentration - by asking casual, irrelevant questions - resulted in uncontrollable outbursts of physical, primal violence. A start contrast to the extremely agreeable, peaceful man I am otherwise.
     
    That doesn't look so bad!
     
    I'll illustrate the mental effort required to perform this exercise, because meditation does sound easy, even fun. I'm assuming you, the reader, are an average-fitness bloke or gal in his/her twenties.
     
    Imagine running for 10 miles straight, the feeling that your legs are made of iron and unresponsive, the shortness of breath, the cold, crawling feeling of your extremities and skin going numb as blood flow is diverted for maximum efficiency of locomotion. Your batteries are drained, one more step is all you can manage. And perhaps one more. And one after that. And you repeat that mantra, step by step by step until you reach your 10 mile goal, your wobbly knees unable to support you for a moment longer, you fall on your hands.
     
    Despite my BMI indicating I'm overweight and always being the fat kid who skipped sports lessons, I started running. The exhaustion brought on by high-intensity running induced a state of inner peace and quiet.
     
    It remains easier for me to run for 2 hours to the point of exhaustion than perform this mental exercise of getting into the zone.
     
     
    And then I started smoking cannabis.
     
    I first smoked cannabis at around 20, and enjoyed it thoroughly. I started smoking more and more often and it wasn't long until I found myself smoking at home, where my work takes shape. Then it hit me.
     
    There I was, mildly high, working. Just like that, working. There was no sense of inner chaos or dread to overcome. There was no burning compulsion to move, to delay, to escape. The inner conflict - where my ego induced guilt for not performing the work my instincts fought against - it was gone.
     
    I just had work to do, I wasn't feeling like doing anything else in particular, so I started coding. It felt like autopilot, like a damaged aircraft grew it's ailerons back mid-flight. 
     
    I was shocked with my realization. A fluke. It must be.
     
    A fluke! Cannabis is supposed to make you lazy and unmotivated!
     
    Nope.
    I've been experimenting for the past 6 months. Smoking about 2 grams of schwag a week, every second week giving myself a break. I've mapped my productivity using GIT and Toggl, using tasks done and lines of code written. This isn't a boardroom meeting so I'll spare you the charts. This is how my productivity compares when high
     
    Sober productivity: 100%
    Intoxicated productivity: 454%
     
    Quality of code, paradoxically, increased as well. I suddenly found the time to draw diagrams, properly comment my code and refactor it. Messy code started to offend me, so I took my time fixing it. I found I could devote much more time, spending 12 or 14 hours a day working on the product my startup company, the only one willing to put up with my unreliability, showcased recently in an international expo. Despite the hostile deadline, I delivered a shining, bug-free application with elegant and consistent internal design. All of it written while high. The product was a big success.
     
    Furthermore, I could switch to and from tasks as I wanted. When interrupted I would no longer walk up inches up to a man's face and say something that, to anyone unfamiliar with my mother tongue, would sound like a death threat.
    I would smile instead.
     
    Help!
     
    If you've gotten this far, you've read my plight. I'm not a stupid guy - I taught myself programming, electronics, chemistry - even the language I'm using to write this post, not by conscious choice, but automatically, by this peculiar selective attention span that is outside of my control.
     
    Cannabis is the first thing that allowed me to regain some control over my decisions without me having to lead an inner battle over control.
     
    I am looking for any sort of information or suggestions. 

     
  2. That was an enjoyable anecdote to read! Suggestion: keep it up, seems to be very liberating  :hippie:
     
  3.  
    Thank you. It's impossible to accurately describe mental states - you'll never do justice trying to explain how being high is like - therefor I tried to describe my subjective feelings and observations in the best way I could. A personal insight of mine is that only psychonauts can know how limited our vocabulary is regarding mental states, but that's another matter.
     
    It'll take more than a shoulder to cry on psychotherapy to fix this though - I'm thinking, since cannabis is helping me, maybe other people had similar experiences? Perhaps someone has other solutions to similar problems?
     
    While it looks like an excuse to be constantly high, I'm pretty sure I'd sooner die of age than find a HR department that'd approve my request for being high on the job. And I'd hate to give up programming for a less mentally demanding occupation, because all things said and done, I like it, and I'm good at it. 
     
  4. #4 Moonwalker, Apr 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2014
    I have a similar issue where I must be doing something productive while I'm baked. Usually cooking... Lol

    I don't wanna come out of the rabbit hole.
     
  5. Same here. Although not exactly. I quite enjoy working sober as well, but if I rip a bong or two (or three) before going to the work, everything's such great (many awesome, wow) and I find it really fun.
     
    I am not sure whether or not it's right what I am doing or not, but for now, I don't care lol.
     
  6. I'm not sure what you're asking for help with.  Also, this seems like an odd post.  An odd mix of storytelling and an attempt at persuasion, with a healthy splash of bitch-to-brag. It tripped my wtfdar after the second bolded section title.   What has me most curious now is what your thinking was for the text changes between this and http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=89256 
     
    Basically, this feels disingenuous all over the place, but I can't figure your motivation, outside of bitch-to-brag. 
     
    UNLESS you are on the spectrum, and have somehow gone undiagnosed until now.  None of the above would apply if you've got high functioning autism and ADD.
     
  7. it Sounds like your my brother. Literally the only difference between your story and mine,is I started smoking way earlier, and I'm a computer tech, not a programmer, although I have dabbled.

    knives heated dull red
    release sweet smoky nectar
    I am lifted high
     
  8. #8 haemo, Apr 3, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
     
    I'll explain then. This is a cannabis forum and I don't have to make a case for it's medicinal properties. Outside of this community however, cannabis still carries with it all the baggage that the generic label "drug" has - including self-delusion and impaired judgement. By adding the fragment about external confirmation of my increased productivity I hoped to avoid the question "Maybe you're just thinking you're working better, but in reality you're just high?"
     
    There is some bitching and bragging in that post, yes. I won't deny that the attention problems I'm experiencing are making me frustrated and bitter at times. There was certainly some venting there - the alternative is that I could have used a very clinical style of writing which would make the whole post boring and uninteresting - and, I feel, less informative, since merely describing outward symptoms would not allow others to compare their inner emotions.
     
    My motivation, ultimately, is to try and find people who've had similar problems and see if they've come up with other solutions. So far I've gotten feedback through PMs and posts, for which I'm grateful. I've found information on the internet and people's feedback to be more valuable than the medical professionals I've visited - which is why I'm throwing my ideas here and seeing what comes of it. 
     
    A car analogy for what I'm doing:
    Somewhere in your memory there's the image of the iconic delorean from the movie Back to the Future. You totally forgot it ever was featured in that movie and you never really memorized the brand name, just the shape of the car. You have some vague associations, but the name "delorean" does not come to mind. You decide to google it up. You google "cool car", "80s cool car", "sports car with doors that open up". You can't really frame the proper query, you orbit around it, sifting through information about 80s cars and gull doors until you hopefully stumble upon an image of a delorean.
     
     
    I have not been diagnosed with anything. I've been asked questions like "Do you feel like you have a mission of grand importance to accomplish" or "Are you treated unfairly because other people fear your potential and are trying to undermine you" - questions that led nowhere as I went on a tangent, framing my own observations of social dynamics, refusing to give a simple answer that was unrepresentative of what I really believe.
     
  9. #9 haemo, Apr 3, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
     
    Knowing programming is extremely useful for any computer work, including being a tech - be it knowing enough ASM to read crash dumps and figure out which driver is causing bluescreens or being able to write out a Python script to find network misconfigurations without having to do it manually.
     
    What I've found out is that computer nerds (like myself) already know how to program - or more specifically, know the mindset needed for computers, which is a soft skill far harder to learn than just the syntax. Give Python a try - it's a lightweight but very powerful scripting language. No hassle of compiling, no need to worry about the nitty-gritties like memory management, compiler parameters.. and the language itself is FUN, something you don't usually say about programming languages.
     
     
    Have you had any success leaning off of cannabis or using other methods to focus? 
     
    Also, would you agree that you find it easier to focus at night than during the morning/day?
     
  10. Yeah, I thought it was a load too.
     
  11. I'm definitely a night person. When I said I dabbled in code, I meant it more that I don't do it EVERY DAY. Sadly,my skills are severely underplayed. The last job I did that wasn't routine was ghosting a raid array on an old server. I rarely experience a challenge, and my coding skills arent even known about around here really.... Im surrounded by hick folk who swear the elf in the magic box doesn't like them and that's why it won't turn on.
    Last week this older gentleman brought in his laptop to get fixed,said it wouldn't turn on, and I got excited cause I rarely get to work on laptops. Took me all of 30 seconds to fix. Just needed charging. Jesus Christ.
    I'm self taught in Javascript, c# and ++, vb, HTML and of course the Almighty dos!
    Remade dig dug for dos in 8th grade for fun haha!
    Really the only thing besides pot and a certain unmentionable that I used to do that helps, is not sleeping. I find the longer I stay awake the more focused, and intense I become. I need less sleep than most, I'm well rested after only a couple hours, but withholding even that little bit, turns the genius on past 10 lol I got through college on next to no sleep.
    It is true after around 40 something hours, I slowly stop emoting effectively. If I'm on a project, EVERYTHING else falls out of my notice.

    knives heated dull red
    release sweet smoky nectar
    I am lifted high
     
  12.  
    I think know what unmentionable you're referring to and it is my opinion that in a decade or two we'll be seeing the adverse effects of it's use on a society-wide scale. At best, it contributes to premature brain aging and causes personality changes that don't go away when treatment is stopped. At worst.. I've seen the sheer madness that always follows it's abuse. I am not going down that path.
     
     
    Yes!
     
    I didn't mention this before, but it's the exact same thing with me - if I go without sleep for a prolonged period, the same thing happens to me. I wake up late and the midday is just a prelude to work I always do at night. Whenever I used to do this, working into the morning, I would open the window to let the cold air in - it kept my body awake as my mind was focused on the task at hand. Occasionally I found myself experiencing this odd sensation, as if I was floating above my chair. A mild sense of dissociation - all it took was standing up and stretching, though since I've bought myself an adjustable sit/stand desk I've found I could experience this even while standing, though it'd be harder.
     
  13. I absolutely agree on your view on the effects of unmentionables, it's why I stopped taking it. Fuck pharma. I've stuck with pot since.
    Many people (doctors included) think these traits we share are negative. While I find some of it irksome, I USE my"disability " to better myself. Staying up for 3 days(only using sativan strains of mj and will power) isn't considered healthy, or natural, but I'm able to repair a backlog of computers,tend an expansive garden, learn more about Both my chosen professions, amongst a dozen other tasks that I complete, while everyone else is sleeping. I get upwards of 18 extra hours a week, that no one else uses!

    knives heated dull red
    release sweet smoky nectar
    I am lifted high
     
  14. I'm diagnosed ADHD and was medicated with prescriptions for about 6 months right after I turned 18. I also suffer severe social anxiety that manifests similarly to asperger's. The side effects were horrible, so I stopped. It's been almost four years and I've managed it with caffeine and alcohol (both of which can keep my butt in a chair long enough to accomplish something). I struggle with hyperactivity, along with the attention issues. I was able to practice piano 4-6 hours a day for 10 years, and I finished high school at the age of 13, but try to get me to do something that I'm not passionate about, you can check and see if it's finished by next century.
     
    I only started smoking weed about a month ago, to treat my chronic migraines (15+ headache days a month). I tried to keep it only on the weekends, because I was scared that my motivation level would go down and I wouldn't get my homework done on weeknights. This last week my migraines were so bad I smoked every night despite my concern, and was surprised that I didn't have any negatives.
     
    I've found that I do notice a major improvement in my ADHD when I'm stoned. I don't feel like I think or move quite as quickly, but I stop multitasking and focus on one thing at a time, and stuff that I need to do, so overall my productivity is higher. I'm finding myself getting home, smoking, eating, doing homework, and getting in bed by 10 with enough energy to give my boyfriend attention before falling asleep. When I don't smoke, I tend to come home, eat, waste 3 hours on reddit, facebook, and whatever, get started with homework at about 10:30 (still juggling other websites in the background), and pass out at 2am stressed because I don't have my work done, and sexually frustrated because my partner makes me put school and sleep before him.
     
    Conclusion: I definitely don't think cannabis has a negative impact on my ADD. Is it a positive effect? Only one week and one person doesn't constitute a study, and the jury is still out on long term use.
     
  15.  
    http://www.davidbearmanmd.com/docs/ADHD&EndocannabinoidSystem.pdf
     
    We know there's a biological link. And the more I read, the more information I uncover about it helping people with certain types of impulse control disorders. 
     
     
     
    That's a nice word for procrastinating. ;)
     
    Yes, I've seen the exact same effects. I think slower, my working memory is worse, I often find myself stopping and thinking "what was it I was supposed to do here again?" - but ultimately, cannabis allows me to calmly ignore the urges to go and do something else. Despite the quality of my focus going down, the quantity of time I can spend on a topic increases dramatically. 
     
    Phoenix, this is kind of tough, as it always is when describing one's inner states but bear with me. Imagine the moment you're sitting in your chair, mentally preparing yourself for a task, a task you know you HAVE to do. But you don't do it, you do something else instead - browse reddit or whatever. 
     
    Describe, if you can, the moment when you delay/abandon/ignore the stuff you have to do and procrastinate. Do you feel this moment is any different when you're medicated?
     
  16.  
    Typically I'm thinking, talking, and doing something with my hands all at the same time. There's multiple trains of thought going on at once, rarely overlapping, but often getting shuffled against each other. Impulsivity is high, and I switch tasks or ideas without stopping to think. I'll switch from homework to facebook before I've even realized I've decided to do it.
     
    When I'm on Ritalin, it's like my mind becomes a magnet to one specific task or idea and I just zone in on that one thing, ignoring everything else, until that chosen task is finished. I therefore have to be careful what I pick. Impulses are still there, but I have to stop and put energy into switching tasks, and that gives me enough time to chose not to do it. I am hyper-aware that my hand has moved to the mouse and is switching windows to facebook, and I decide not to at the last moment.
     
    When I'm on marijuana, I can't think, talk, and do something with my hands at the same time anymore. I have to pause the other two while the third is happening. Therefore when I'm completing a task, I'm not likely to have a thought that inspires me to pick up a new task. I'm working on homework, therefore it's not going to occur to me to switch the page to facebook because I'm focused only on the third derivative of x^3+4x-2. I'm not going to have room in my brain for a new thought until the old one is exhausted and I go on the hunt for something new.
     
    I don't know if what I said makes sense. I am currently baked.
     
  17.  
    Yes, thank you, it makes a lot of sense, especially in context. Don't worry, my first post here was written baked too ;)
     
    There's one theory that ADD/ADHD isn't the lack of capacity to focus per se, but not being able to manage focus - going from the extreme of inattent-OOOOH SHINY, right up to a single-minded hyperfocus on one particular thing. I'm curious whether people with ADD/ADHD are experiencing this. Let me outline a scenario:
     
    Basically: you start off not wanting to do X. X is some task you need to do - be it a thesis for your university or a major project in work. The more you think about it, the more you dread the thought. You sit down and try to do X but you feel as if you're going to explode. Anything but X. There's a thousand things demanding your attention far more than X. X can wait. Like climbing a hill that gets steeper with every step.. but at the top, there's a wide and flat plateau - if you break through the inertia, you can get totally absorbed by a task, even one you dreaded - to the point you find it hard to walk away from it. 
     
    That's without any medication. On ritalin or other stimulants you go to the plateau of hyperfocus almost instantly and on any task, whether it's actually doing your thesis on X or something useless like sorting your book collection.
     
    What I've just wrote above - how accurate is it? Did I get it right or did I totally miss the mark?
     
  18. #18 PhoenixTattoo, Apr 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
     
    I'm studying biochemistry so I'll explain it as I understand it from the research I've read:
     
    A person who exhibits ADD will have a brain scan that reveals low bloodflow to the impulse center of the brain. Due to the lack of blood flow, the "filter" that keeps you from getting distracted by constant thought-firing is malfunctioning.
     
    Fascinatingly, this impulse center is located very near the emotional center, so when it comes to doing things you like or that interest you, that filter suddenly starts working and you can focus on a given task.
     
    That's how you get a kid who can't sit still to save their life, but can play a video game for 8 hours.
     
    Stimulants like Ritalin simply improve bloodflow to the brain so that your impulse filter starts working like everyone else's.
     
    I suppose substances like MJ simply slow down the constant thought-firing so that the filter simply isn't needed.
     
     
    ADHD as a term is kind of being phased out, as it only describes the people with ADD who exhibit hyperactivity as a symptom. ADD and ADHD are the same phenomenon.
     
  19. #19 haemo, Apr 11, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
     
    If blood flow is the issue, why don't we see Piracetam used as ADD medication? It does increase the metabolic rate and blood flow, but I haven't seen it used to treat impulse disorders. It is on my list of medications to try, but no first hand experience yet. Based on the reports I've read, it does little to alleviate the symptoms of ADD. 
     
    All the ADD medication I've seen targets dopamine in one way or another - but personally I feel that the endocannabinoid system is equally important here. Dopaminergic drugs, for me at least, mask the symptoms, while cannabis relieves them on a deeper level - with the side effect of being high.
     
    Previous attempts at creating drugs that target the endocannabinoid system failed, in that while they managed to create substances with selective affinity for the receptors they were aiming for, they still "got you high". Unfortunately unscrupulous businessmen picked up that research and marketed those as "synthetic weed", K9 or however it was called in the US. Maybe that's part of the reason amphetamine derivatives are the norm?
     
    If I could turn back the clock a few years, I'd definitely be studying biochemistry/medicine/biotech instead of having my proverbial liberal arts degree - it's great to talk with somebody studying this fascinating topic. It's the last frontier we've got, which is why I've always found it so appealing ;)
     

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