I AM THAT I AM, said God when Moses asked his name. This famous phrase sounds a lot like Vedanta's Thou art that. The great Hindu sage Ramana Maharshi even said: "I am" is the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement "I am that I am" in Exodus (Chapter 3). There are other statements, such as Brahmivaham, Aham Brahmasmi, and Soham. But none is so direct as the name Jehovah = I am. Q: What are the obstacles which hinder realization of the Self? A: They are habits of mind [vasanas]. Q: How to overcome the mental habits [vasanas]? A: By realising the Self. Q: This is a vicious circle. A: It is the ego which raises such difficulties, creating obstacles and then suffering from the perplexity of apparent paradoxes. Find out who makes the enquiries and the Self will be found. Q: If ‘I' also is an illusion, who then casts off the illusion? A: The ‘I' casts off the illusion of ‘I' and yet remains as ‘I'. Such is the paradox of Self- realization. The realized do not see any contradiction in it. A classic so-called paradox is "Fullness = Emptyness" and "Emptyness = Fullness". Is there really a paradox or is it only the dualistic mind seeing an apparent paradox? Early travelers from the "West" encountering Buddhism heard of this "emptyness" and "no self" and thought that Buddhism was a nihilistic teaching. (Nihilism means, in this context, "a doctrine that nothing exists, is knowable, or can be communicated". ) But there is in fact no paradox in "Emptyness = Fullness" and in "no Self" - there is no contradiction at all. The duality is in the mind. Step out of the mind and there is not anything that is even remotely a contradiction. For a person with a very strongly defended belief in the "me" - would it be possible for them to see what "emptyness" or "no self" actually is - beyond a concept?
Hey, Virtue, I think you should check out Madhvacharya (my favorite Hindu philosopher). You may like him. Quick excerpts from Wiki: Metaphysics According to Madhva there are primarily two tatvas or categories of reality-svatantra tatva (independent reality) and asvantantra tatva (dependent reality). Broadly, Īśvara as cause of the universe is the independent reality, and the created universe is the dependent reality. The created universe consists of jÄ«va and matter. JÄ«vas are sentient and matter is non-sentient. Madhva further enumerates the difference between dependent and independent reality as a fivefold division between Īśvara, jÄ«va and matter. These differences are: (1) Between matter and matter; (2) Between matter and jÄ«va; (3) Between matter and Īśvara; (4) Between jÄ«va and jÄ«va; and (5) Between jÄ«va and Īśvara. This difference is neither temporary nor merely practical; it is an invariable and natural property of everything. For such is the law of nature: One is not two; two is not one. There is no object like another. There is no jÄ«va like another. No man's nature is like that of another. Underlying everything and every individual person, there is a unique individuality or speciality. The sea is full; the tank is full; even water-pots may be full (of water). But that fullness is not identical in all these. The volume varies according to the variation in size. Everything is full, yet each fullness is different. In fact, even in liberated jÄ«vas, the difference prevails such that the degree of knowledge and enjoyment of bliss of each soul varies. Nature of the Soul There are an infinite number of atomic, eternally existing jÄ«vas. Madhva compares the relationship of the jÄ«va to Īśvara with the analogy of a thing (bimba) and its reflection (pratibimba): if Īśvara be the statue, the jÄ«vas are his reflection. The reflection is always dependent on the original; it can never become identical with it. Like jÄ«vas, the inanimate substances too that go into the creative apparatus of the universe are innumerable. Each jÄ«va is numerically and qualitatively non-identical to every other and the variety of qualitative differentiation is infinite. The nature of the jÄ«va is to be further liable to be caught up in the world. The jÄ«va, which is at the center in the triple categories of Īśvara–jÄ«va–matter, becomes involved in the meshes of [[samsara]], or bondage when it leans toward matter; it becomes liberated if it leans toward Īśvara, the essence of whom is reflected in its capacity for knowledge and consciousness. Nature of the World Madhva sees the world as five-faceted: five elements, five elemental essences, five sheaths, five sense-organs etc. That is why it is designated as pra-pañca or a 'perfect pentad' in Sanskrit. In this pentad, the principle of Prana there is the fivefold division of prÄņa, apÄna, vyÄna, udÄna and samÄna. Moreover, it is being controlled all the time by God who also assumes five forms, viz. Aniruddha, Pradyumna, Saṇkaraá¹£aṇa, VÄsudeva and NÄrÄyaṇa. The world is permanent and is a fallen state for the jÄ«va, which is away from its place of true happiness, namely in the presence of Īśvara. The world is the lÄ«la or sport of Īśvara, and so creation isn't to be shunned. Rather it should be enjoyed in a detached way. Nature of God Madhva's theology is Vaishnavism. According to Madhva, NÄrÄyaṇa alone is the supreme independent godhead. The entire Vedic corpus hymns only his praise; the names of deities invoked therein, such as Agni, Indra and Varuṇa are but various epithets of Viṣṇu. Monotheism alone is thus the quintessence of Vedic literature and not polytheism. Though Īśvara is one, the divine beings are many. These divine beings are not God. They are only jÄ«vas that have realized God and risen to a high state by acquiring [[siddhi]] or divine power. These siddhas or realized adepts can serve as gurus to guide the soul who is still a religious seeker. Īśvara is the cause of the world, an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, just and wholly transcendent being. Madhva has Īśvara straddle various contradictions in the description of Brahman by semantic interpretation. For example, for the notion that "Īśvara both has forms and is formless, and is both qualified and unqualified," Madhva explains it in the following way. Īśvara is endowed with forms because he has a body of knowledge and bliss, but is formless because he has no body that can be circumscribed by a finite mind. Īśvara is qualified because he possesses the six qualities of omniscience (JñÄna), sovereignty (<span>AiÅ›varya</span>), omnipotence (Åšakti), endurance, or the capacity to support everything by will and without any fatigue (Bala), vigour, or the power to retain immateriality as the supreme being in spite of being the material cause of mutable creations (VÄ«rya) and splendour, or self-sufficiency and the capacity to overpower everything by his spiritual effulgence (Tejas) (Tapasyananda 1991), but unqualified because he is entirely free of material adjuncts. Īśvara chooses to save some souls while condemning others to eternal existence within <span>saṃsÄra</span>. (Sharma 1994, p. 373) Nature of Liberation Mukti, or liberation, does not mean the cessation of an illusory world. Rather, the world is real, and liberation is the lack of attachment to the world. In samsÄra, the jÄ«va, being unaware of its power of self-consciousness, is ignorant of its true nature as a reflection of Īśvara, becomes a tool in the hands of matter, searching in vain for truth. In the state of liberation, material nature is conquered, and consciousness of Īśvara fills the soul. The world is realized as a dependent reality and therefore as 'untrue' in the sense of being the lesser reality. Means to Liberation The only way for the jÄ«va to escape the world is divine grace, which can only be gained through selfless devotional service to God, or bhakti. (Sharma 1994, p. 373)
Thanks for sharing! I'll be sure to check out his teachings. ------------------- Your silence will have more effect than your words or deeds. That is the development of will-power. Then the world becomes the Kingdom of Heaven, which is within you. Talks 453
M.: Be what you are. There is nothing to come down or become manifest. All that is needful is to lose the ego, That what is, is always there. Even now you are That. You are not apart from it. The blank is seen by you. You are there to see the blank. What do you wait for? The thought “I have not seen,†the expectation to see and the desire of getting something, are all the working of the ego. You have fallen into the snares of the ego. The ego says all these and not you. Be yourself and nothing more! (From 'Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi' 183)
would you say its in our nature to passivley begin to understand these things, i mean if you're seeking spiritual knowledge, are all truths located within the mind? it sounds like you say the mind is false in nature but the mind must be used. is that a curse? are we all cursed here? i have allowed my thoughts to be as free as i can, and sometimes i think truths appear in this way. i think truth is the origin of all matter, but so far i have found truth to be fragmented in all understanding, and thus no truth is truly realized, only partially realized. the best explanation i have thought of is that we do live in a duality, that all matter is conscious and has a disposition toward order or chaos, i know i'm mostlikely wrong, but who isn't? i think collectively we all strive for chaos/destruction on earth, although the most primal instinct is survival (which may or may not be defined as an instinct) we still trend to destruction through order, i aslo have thought that lead me to believe that both dispositions lead to the same conclusion, oneness. a return to the origin, i have found that God is all, that we as God may have decided to experience all there is, and split ourself into what we percieve as the universe, and when it has run it's course we will be one again. possibly to expand once more into another universe. i have heard many times the concept of ego death, but i must say my ego or sense of self (maybe i don't really understand the definition of ego) has been the greatest tool i have in copeing with uncertainties, though it also causes me extreme discomfort. i really love what most people have said here, and mostly i feel i have come to a few of the same conclusions. i feel as though there is no tradgedy only events that inevitably lead to the origin, all is as it is, there is no wrong path, only different paths. the things that upset me or another only do so because we were socialized that way.
If the mind, which is the instrument of knowledge and is the basis of all activity, subsides, the perception of the world as an objective reality ceases. Unless the illusory perception of the serpent in the rope ceases, the rope on which the illusion is formed is not perceived as such. (This analogy is based on a traditional story of a man who sees a rope at twilight and mistaking it for a serpent is afraid without cause.) Similarly, unless the illusory nature of the perception of the world as an objective reality ceases, the vision of the true nature of the Self, on which the illusion is formed, is not obtained. The mind is a wondrous power residing in the Self. It causes all thoughts to arise. Apart from thoughts, there is no such thing as mind. Therefore, thought is the nature of mind. Apart from thoughts, there is no independent entity called the world. In deep sleep there are no thoughts, and there is no world. In the states of waking and dream, there are thoughts, and there is a world also. Just as the spider emits the thread (of the web) out of itself and again withdraws it into itself, likewise the mind projects the world out of itself and again resolves it into itself. When the mind leaves the Self, the world appears. Therefore, when the world appears, the Self does not appear; and when the Self appears (shines) the world does not appear.
i'm not sure i understand, it seems that you're saying our perception of the world is the illusion and that there is no world, isn't our perception created by our minds? does that mean you're saying our mind while amazing and beautiful is our greatest limitation? i'm sorry if i'm way off. i am trying hard to understand. when you refer to mind to you mean our physical minds? our brains? and would self be another entity? i don't think i'm on the same page as you though not from lack of effort, can you define these terms for me? or am i asking the wrong questions? so you say thoughts are the mind. i would say if that is true then the mind is a manifestation of the brain, and subject to the same limitations. if the world does not exist while we sleep, then why do others experience the world while i sleep? unless you're refering only to an individuals experience of the world alone. so if we all sleep at once will the world dissapear? how can the mind leave the self if its existence is dependant of the self? it also seems you're saying nothing is real at all, but that would mean existence is not real, that there is only nothing. which i cannot even begin to understand. not to say that idea is wrong, only that i personaly don't really get it. i want to be clear that i'm not debating or telling you you're wrong, only trying to understand.
Is there any end to the pull and tug of questions and answer? Who is asking the questions? "Who Am I?" - Enquiry For all thoughts the source is the 'I' thought. The mind will merge only by Self-enquiry 'Who am I?' The thought 'Who am l?' will destroy all other thoughts and finally kill itself also. If other thoughts arise, without trying to complete them, one must enquire to whom did this thought arise. What does it matter how many thoughts arise? As each thought arises one must be watchful and ask to whom is this thought occurring. The answer will be 'to me'. If you enquire 'Who am I?' the mind will return to its source (or where it issued from). The thought which arose will also submerge. As you practice like this more and more, the power of the mind to remain as its source is increased. Surrender There are two ways of achieving surrender. One is looking into the source of the 'I' and merging into that source. The other is feeling 'I am helpless myself, God alone is all powerful and except throwing myself completely on Him, there is no other means of safety for me', and thus gradually developing the conviction that God alone. exists and the ego does not count. Both methods lead to the same goal. Complete surrender is another name for jnana or liberation. The Three States: Waking,Dream and Sleep There is no difference between the dream and the waking state except that the dream is short and the waking long. Both are the result of the mind. Our real state is beyond the waking, dream and sleep states, called turiya.
thank you, but i'm lost, this is not something i can understand. or at least your explanations are not articulated in an intelligable manner. i sort of see what you are trying to get across but not vey well, your words sound interesting on the tongue, yet provoke mostly confusion in my mind. i prefer my own version, but i do appreciate your time and effort. i feel as though i surrendered long ago, i am ready to be dead, i'm just waiting around now. i know my place and purpose, and have no qualms with my own thoughts. "i" is impossible to be rid of, and if it is, i'm not so sure one really nees this. i am happy in my state of being. i re-read my own statement here, i do not mean to be critcal, just honest
i think everyone has the idea of god in their minds whether they believe or not or want to believe or not. there's a reason it's the most popular idea ever. come on it ranks really high in the popularity list. god represents so much more then what the strong believers and the non believers see. But I've never actually read the bible or anything and am not educated in religion at all. I don't know what it's purpose of creation was or why it was built into us but to be alive you have to believe something, anything. i don't know i'm starting to ramble and i don't know if i believe in much or anything which might be bad. but i think i have some beliefs that are hard to come out.
you talkin to me? hey man i don't wanna discredit anyone here or there, i'm frustrated that i can't undertand, it's no ones fault that i don't get it, i feel as though the truth of these things are within each of us and is different for each of us
no i wasn't talking to you but if you felt that i was then maybe i was. and you are correct the truth of these things is in each of us and is different for all of us. we all come down to different conclusions just based on what we want to believe. in a way i want to believe in god but I've created my own idea of it in my head and i can't describe it to good with words. i think everyone has that problem, but hell (ironic) do they try. i don't like trying to explain it because maybe it's a weak spot i don't know. honestly i don't even know if god is something good or bad to believe in. will it weaken you? will it strengthen you? i don't know. god resembles hope the way i see it, among other "Good" god qualities. but others might see it as a delusional weakening device of instilling hope where hope doesn't belong? if i continue ima lose my train of thought and derail so i hope i made sense for the little that i wrote.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: By whatever path you go, you will have to lose yourself in the one. Surrender is complete only when you reach the stage '‘Thou art all' and ‘Thy will be done'. The state is not different from jnana. In soham (the affirmation of ‘I am he') there is dvaita (dualism). In surrender there is advaita (non-dualism). In the reality there is neither dvaita nor advaita, but that which is. Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say with their lips '‘surrender'' and put their burdens on their Lord, they can be free and do what they like. But the fact is that you can have no likes or dislikes after your surrender; your will should become completely non-existent, the Lord's will taking its place. The death of the ego in this way brings about a state, which is not different from jnana. So by whatever path you may go, you must come to jnana or oneness. ---------- If one has surrendered, would one feel "frustrated"?
Good and bad are just thoughts. They are relative terms. There must be a subject to know the good and evil. That subject is the ego. Trace the source of the ego. It ends in the Self. The source of the ego is God. Stand firm with the conviction that the self shines as everything and nothing within and without everywhere. Can God ever be a part from you? Can one deny ones own existence? I am that I am. RealiZe the self and you shall know God.
this makes more sense to me, so i'm curious of the mechanics of the ego, if it comes from self which is God then what are our bodies? are they ourself? or a tool? or a curse? or a test? if the ego comes from God, why would i try to disregard it? unless the ego is the compass, that always points toward God. but if that is true, then why are many egos only used to fullfill ones worldly desires. or is the ego something that only points where you're looking? sorry for so many questions, but what you say has many possibilities
The body is a thought. The "I" thought. Individuality. That which comes will go and cannot be real. Your body was born and it will die. Identification with the body is the root of all suffering. Attachments, desires, avoidances, perpetual endless thought.. Are all mechanics of the mind/ego. Why entertain these mechanics?
In verse 25 of Ulladu Narpadu, Sri Ramana explains how the ego rises from its source (our real self), how it remains away from its source, and how it will eventually subside back into its source: Grasping form [that is, attaching itself to a body] it comes into existence; grasping form [that is, attending to thoughts or perceptions of a seemingly external world] it stands [or endures]; grasping form it feeds and grows [flourishes or expands]; leaving [one] form it grasps [another] form. If [we] seek [search, investigate, examine or scrutinise it], it will take flight. Know [that this is the nature of this] formless ghost-ego. That is, since this ego has no form (no finite or separate existence) of its own, it can seemingly come into existence and endure only when we imagine ourself to be a form (a physical body), and it flourishes when we attend to any form (anything that appears to be separate from ourself). In other words, since this ego is thus just a ‘formless ghost', it can rise, endure and flourish only by ‘grasping form', and hence when it tries to ‘grasp' (or attend to) itself, which is not a form, it will subside and disappear. The truth that Sri Ramana teaches us here can therefore be rephrased thus: our mind or ego is nourished and sustained by attending to anything other than itself, and hence it will be dissolved and destroyed only by attending to itself.
6. The world is nothing more than an embodiment of the objects perceived by the five sense-organs. Since, through these five sense-organs, a single mind perceives the world, the world is nothing but the mind. Apart from the mind can there be a world? 7. Although the world and knowledge thereof rise and set together it is by knowledge alone that the world is made apparent. That Perfection wherein the world and knowledge thereof rise and set, and which shines without rising and setting, is alone the Reality. 8. Under whatever name and form one may worship the Absolute Reality, it is only a means for realizing It without name and form. That alone is true realization, wherein one knows oneself in relation to that Reality, attains peace and realizes one's identity with it.