What the fuck is wrong with Americans.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ItsReneeYo_, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. #41 RippedMonk, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
     
    I totally get your point.  Honestly, I feel dissent is actually the greatest form of patriotism.  If we don't complain, our circumstances won't improve.  However, I am well aware that most US citizens have no idea how well they have it.  Most are basically the equivalent of a spoiled little brat in comparison to most of the world.
     
  2. I'm not a fan of silencing dissent but clearly some people are.
     
  3. I like the libertarian stance where we mind out own fucking business and stay the fuck out of other back yard.
     
    Lets educate and take care of our own people and manage our own boarders.
     
  4. So the scenario is that Iran attacked a U.S. vessel killing all the crew and from that, WW3 would start.  First off, I doubt the U.S. would "flatten" Iran for the attack and killing of 30 military personnel though there would be a measured retaliatory attack.  Secondly,  Iran nor anyone else has the right to restrict naval (military or non-military) traffic as long as it is in recognized international waters.  Thirdly, if it was a russian or chinese vessel, do you think they would react.  Maybe british, french, german, iraeli or japanese vessel?  Any country with retailitory capability would do something but an all-out war, I doubt it. 
     
    Whoever the professor was that put forth this scenario is mentally lazy or has an agenda if it was as you described.
     
    With your attitude, the U.S. Civil War would never have been fought.  How many union soldiers were killed at Fort Sumter?  Based on your opinion about the costs of retaliating, you would say no.  Persons held in slavery were not counted as human at the time.  Even if a few hundred soldiers killed at Fort Sumter versus the over 600000 killed during the civil war, you would say it isn't worth it even though slavery was not the initial reason for the civil war.  You wouldn't have fought in WW2 because the loss of 2400 persons at Pearl Harbour versus the total loss of 400000 american personnel lost from WW2. 
     
    One thing you aren't taking into account is the attitude of the agressor nation(s).  How willing are they to accept casualties/death of their military and/or citizens.  Look at the number of military/civilian deaths the Soviets experienced during WW2 whether they be caused by germans or the Stalin.  The number of Chinese military deaths during the Korean War.  You need to broaden your thinking bro.  Some agressors are willing to sacrifice untold numbers of their own people to accomplish their aims or desires.  Look at the muslim suicide bombers killing untold numbers of their own people.
     
  5. #45 ItsReneeYo_, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014


    Well you sir seem to know me better than I know myself. We do not know the Iranians intentions, I simply want to figure that out first before we do anything, my classmates wanted war. I wanted negotiation . If negotiation is impossible then fine. Go to war. What else can we do. In all the scenarios you mentioned and "think" I wouldn't agree with , they had something to fight for , and the possibility of winning. in this situation it seemed to me that we were at a loss and didn't know if it was a misunderstanding or an accident or something.

    War is not the first solution , to me it should be the last...,
     
  6. the professor should have made the story a parallel to something that actually happened and/or at least designed it for the groups to have to research the situation [hopefully provided in depth by the teacher] before deciding how to act. or maybe they did, but it should have been more than just "a vessel was attacked killing 30, decide how to deal with the situation"
     
  7.  
    It's the arrogance of empire.
     
    America is "exceptional," don't you know? Just like the British empire, imperial Japan, NAZI Germany, the Soviet Union, the Spanish empire, etc. etc. also thought THEY were exceptional.
     
    Haha, "nothing is forever."
     
    "May you live in interesting times."
     
  8. May you live in interesting times...that's what my teacher said after the scenario. I dont think she agreed with starting war.

    Chinese curses and such.
     
  9. Because in the back of our minds, even when we really try to imagine America as a nuclear wasteland, we're still thinking "as if. MURICA!" because it's what we've had drilled into us since kids. Yeah, we can think about the consequences, but we're going to go with whatever benefits us the most because we're taught that we can't fail, that this is the land of opportunity, yada yada. I mean really, destroyed? What would the world be without us?

    We're AMERICA. We're IMPORTANT. We're POWERFUL. If you're religious, we're even a 'blessed nation' or whatever.
     
    Bunch of bullshit.

    We're AMERICA. We're fucking CRYBABIES. We don't do SHIT. America is that kid on the playground who whines and tattletales constantly on everybody over the stupidest shit, but never gets any comeuppance for it because it turns out that the school bully (our government) is actually that loser kid's only and best friend, and is gonna go around stealing everyone else's lunch money if they don't shut up and leave him alone.

    Too bad the bully doesn't actually give a fuck about America either. Turns out he only does it for the PB&J sandwiches America's mom packs in his lunch.

    Wow, this metaphor is kinda dumb.  :smoke:  What.
     
  10. You sir, are going down in metaphor history. Like wut. Best ever. Definently stealing.
     
  11. #51 Fizzly, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2014
    Heh, yeah. "God bless our troops."

    What are those troops doing?

    They're putting their lives at risk to protect our freedoms. And God blesses them for doing that.

    I thought they were going to the other side of the world to murder shoeless peasants that normally spend their waking hours finding enough food to eat. Do you really think that that is something that God supports?

    Of course he does! :mad: Oh, so you're one of those "blame 'Murrica first" types? You hate your country, right? And you must hate God also! :mad:

    No, I just resent having my money taken from me by the threat of force, and given to a war machine whose function is to kill or destroy anything that gets in the way of the American Empire. All of that seems to go against ANY religious values.

    TRAITOR!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. USA USA USA
     
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Interesting discussion OP, I believe Cheney was having this discussion at some point, although not for a simulation...
     
    http://youtu.be/QeqiHfj0OFY
     
  14. What's wrong with Americans? Well firstly, Americans grow up identifying with the concept of being American, but that very idea itself is so ambiguous that instead of patriotism, we get obedience to an authority figure which itself is a product of a power struggle produced in the framework of a culture of greed and materialism.

    We basically play into the hands of those who wish us ill will and relinquish our own opinion in place of public opinion. Education has an agenda, it's not particularly malevolent until you realize that it engenders obedience and is the ultimate form of indoctrination besides the media. A media that glorifies ideals of nationalism, violence and ego.

    But what's really wrong with Americans is the same thing that wrong with people all around the world. A lack of insight into all things engendered by a subservience to ideals instilled in them from those who came before. Luckily we evolve, and human culture does it in leaps. Get ready for a revolution, because the kids are noticing that this shit is fishy as fuck and something isn't right. Out with the old and in the with the new.

    This isn't a transition of some minor cycle, but a big one. A huge one. This system has remained with us for centuries, certainly over a millennia or 2. When you see the darkness, don't despair, but have joy, because the night precedes the morning.
     
  15. I really dislike your topic that you have created here. The simple answer to your question as to what would happen is about 50+ countries would have to answer to treaties they signed after WW2 during the late 1940's.
     
    There's so many ways to talk about this discussion and you're going about it all wrong. I could take an hour thinking and writing a great response but I truly think it would fall on deaf ears and I'm kind of lazy to do it on this forum of all things. I feel the same way as you on many topics but it seems like immaturity is coursing through your veins.
     
    Many people say why don't you leave the country, how about ask yourself this. What country would do it better?
     
  16. Immature? How...I took a simulation from government class and posted it here.
     
  17. Really?immaturity for seeing more than her class mates? That's a lil bigoted don't you think? I'm on your side op. Its intelligences problem first. Who gave the order? Who carried it out and why? Was it on the government or was it a captain taking on the role of a rogue and taking it upon themselves to make an incident? Maybe it was an outside party trying to incite America. And yeah I agree there's something wrong with America as a whole. We ARE a people who believe in "sending a message. " and it's bullshit. I bet the majority of the people who would have seen the headlines "Iran attacks navy " would have thrown a whole country under
    the bus, instead of finding out more.
    knives heated dull red
    release sweet smoky nectar
    I am lifted high
     
  18. #59 Tomason, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2014
    I agree with this comment. I didn't agree with you in the "the pill" thread, but here you proof to be brighter than many others of our part of the world that think they are really smart and don't even realize how far they are in the traps of the system.

    I just saw a two hours long interview with a Swiss historical doctor and it's a real pity it's in German and can't be enjoyed by you guys.

    To answer the main question: What is wrong with America?

    First a few things we should recognize as facts that are or can be proven:

    - America is an empire:
    - strongest naval army
    - strongest economy (for now China is still #2)
    - America is providing the world currency
    - has by FAR the most bases in foreign countries
    - resources are by far the most important interest an empire or any country looking for power can have in our times (all times?)
    - America doesn't need or want a strong competition:
    - Middle East with all the main oil sources can never be allied (if that is even possible) and can never become allies with the arch enemy
    - the arch enemy Russia and Europe can not form a strong bond, because they too would outweigh America (see Ukraine, NATO, gladio)
    - the empire America would be happiest if Europe fought each other and the Middle East did the same
    - america is using aggressive and non aggressive ways to influence the game to its odds
    - iraq, third biggest oil in Middle East? DIPS since war
    - Iran, second biggest oil in Middle East? ENEMY of the USrael coalition
    - since Stallone stopped fighting the Russians and the iron curtain fell the bad guy image shifted from bad commy image to bad Muslim image, notice how many movies have Arab terrorists in them?

    Do you even notice how the people start to see Arabs and Muslim as lesser human beings? Oh, gaddafhi is killing people? We should kill more people there to make it right. And the people don't even notice it. Heck, I didn't even notice how I am passively manipulated into thinking its ok-er to bomb mulims because we immediately associate them with terrorists.


    How many people know that the US is giving money and guns to the same people in one country that they fight in another?
    How many people know that the Vietnam war was started on a PROVEN FALSE FLAG?
    How many people know that the Us coup'ed a democratic government out of office to reinstate a dictatorship they now would like removed for democracy?


    We are systematically being lied to and led on. It doesn't matter what kind of gov is running a country, it's a question of is the gov pro or con US and that decides their fate, nothing else.

    The current Ukraine Russia crisis is a perfect example of how one wrong is awesome and another wrong is accused of using hitler methods, when in reality the difference is insignificant.

    Ukrainian nazi trolls part of an for now illegal government? Fuck, let's make them part of the NATO.
    Putin securing Crimea where he has an important (for Russia) harbor with nuke subs? A dictator using nazi methods.

    The reality is, your country and my country (a good butler since 45) are lying to their people and most don't even care or notice it.


    Maybe I'll open up a thread about It tomorrow, it's a pain writing this on an ipad.
     
  19. Because mercuh


    Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
     

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