candlecats First Grow, Organic or otherwise...

Discussion in 'Organic Grow Journals' started by candlecat, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. #1 candlecat, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2013
    Greetings,
     
    I am finally to the point where making a journal for my first completely legal, medical grow is feasible.
     
    I posted this question a while back and since then have successfully started my garden.
     
    http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1243907-first-organic-grow-soil-mix-teas-etc.html
     
    On September 7, I mixed my first batch of soil based on recipes that I have found around the forum. I let this soil cook until November 29.
     
    2 cu. ft. of soil:
    5 gallons Alaska Peat Moss
    5 gallons 4 Corners organic EWC
    5 gallons perlite
    2 cups dolomite lime
    6 cups of amendment blend
    8 cups Gaia Green glacial rock dust
     
    Amendment Blend:
    All Down to Earth brand, all in equal parts, save the Greensand, Azomite and Kelp
    Neem Seed Meal
    Crab
    Kelp (twice as much as others)
    Alfalfa
    Bone
    Oyster
    Greensand (half as much as others)
    Azomite (half as much as others)
     
    While the soil was cooking for those 12 weeks, I added a basic tea twice. The tea was made using a 1 gallon tea pitcher filled with 1/2 gallon R/O water and bubbled with a 1.8 Liters/min air pump and air stone and kept at 75F with an aquarium heater for about 24 hours. The recipe is as follows:
    2 tsp molasses
    1 tsp Eco-Hydro Fish (ingredients: hydrolysed fish, phosphoric acid)
    1 Tbsp alfalfa meal
    1 Tbsp kelp meal
    1 Tbsp neem seed meal
    1/2 cup EWC
    1 tsp liquid seaweed
     
     
    I bought some seeds from an OMMP dispensary. I was really bummed that none of these dispensary owners or employees seem to know the first thing about growing or seeds. I shopped around quite a bit and no one could give me any valuable information, even anything basic like Indica or Sativa. They claimed they were a "resource center" for growers, patients, caregivers, etc but they just have a couple issues of High Times and some overpriced mids. Anyway...
     
    I picked up 3 5 packs of Alphakronik Genes. Alpha Dawg, Snozzberry and the dude threw in a pack of Raw Dawg for free.
    I could find this info about the seeds:
     
    Snozberry (Purple Urkle x Snowdawg BX)
    90/10 Indica/Sativa
    Flowering: 65-70 days
    1.0-1.25x stretch
     
    AlphaDawg (Chemdawg D x Snowdawg BX)
    40/60 Indica/Sativa
    Flowering: 70-75 days
    1.25-1.5x stretch
     
    So germinated 6 of these seeds in a basic soil on November 3.
    1/2 part peat moss
    1/2 part EWC
    1/2 part perlite
     
    Direct sow 3mm deep into moist soil in seed starter trays. Put into tray and on top of seedling heat mat and under germination dome, which I misted with water daily. On November 6, all 6 had sprouted so I put them under a 4 foot flourescent fixture and misted them daily. At that time, I was using the wrong color temperature, a 5200K instead of 6500K. Oops, but they seem to be doing ok.
     
    On November 11, I transplanted 5 of them to solo cups with the same basic soil and watered them 3-4 oz each for the first time. One of the RawDawg was weak and died before the transplant.
     
    I watered again on November 15.
     
    I saw my germination technique had worked, so I germinated the other 9 seeds in the same fashion.
    8/9 sprouted within the first 3 days and were moved immediately under the flourescent fixture. I decided to pick up some CFLs since the 4 ft. fixture is kind of stupid to use for some tiny sprouts, so I got 2 23w 6500K CFLs and put the sprouts under there. The last seed sprouted a couple days later, but another of the same strain died. The RawDawg has always been the last to sprout and the first to die while all the others have thrived... hmm...
     
    I watered batch 1 again on November 24.
     
    On November 29,
    I transplanted batch 1 from solo cups to 1 gallon containers filled with 50% basic soil and 50% amended soil and watered them. I also sprinkled granular Down to Earth Root Zone Myco fungi with beneficial bacteria in each hole for the root ball.
     
    I transplated batch 2 from seed starting trays to solo cups with basic soil and watered them.
     
    I have had some problems with fungus gnats already, which are the worst in the Alpha plants it seems. I top dressed all the plants with Neem meal. It worked for a little while, but they are back. So I sprayed all the leaves with Neem Oil. This seems to have gotten rid of most of them, but some still linger. So I will spray with Neem Oil every week and redress with a little Neem meal and EWC. If that doesn't work, I guess I will use sand. They aren't that bad, though. A dozen or less total flies...
     
    I am vegging in a 4x4 currently under 4 32w 6500K FL tubes (2 4 foot fixtures) 24/0, an oscillating fan blowing gently over the tops. So I have 5 in 1 gallon pots with 50/50 base plus amended soil that are now 5 weeks old and 8 in solo cups that are 3 weeks old.
     
    Right now, I seem to be having some problems with humidity, says my hygrometer. I think my hygrometer is not so accurate, which is worrying me. I have a $20 Grower's Edge hygrometer that I picked up at the nursery. Anyway, so I put a couple wet sponges in open tupperwares on top of a seedling heat mat right under where the fan is blowing (poor girl's humidifier). It has been FUCKING cold and dry out here in Portland for the past week or so (20 degrees F). I have a short amount of ducting feeding directly from outside into my tent that I usually just leave there always, but I have been worried about the cold air coming directly into my tent so I have been pulling it most of the day and then putting it in for a few hours to get some fresh air in the tent. 
     
    My space is set up in my spare bedroom, I have 2 4x4 tents (the other one I will of course use for flower later...) I am just keeping the entire room warm with the wall heater. Room is staying at 75-80 and around 40-50% humidity (like I said, don't think the hygrometer is accurate.)
     
    I will be flowering under an Advanced LED Diamond Series Extreme 3w LED with supplemental flourescent lighting. I plan to buy more LEDs in the future, but they are expensive so for now this is what I have.
     
    I also have 2 4" 171 cfm fans and a 4"x12" 200 cfm filter for later use.
     
    So my biggest concerns right now are the cold air coming in and the humidity and hygrometer issue, the fungus gnats and wondering if I should have put 100% amended soil instead of 50/50 into my 1 gallons....
     
    I will post a few pictures a little later today.
     
    I appreciate any and all advice given.
     
    Thanks for reading :)
     
    Here are some pics. I got a little too busy to take pics for a while so there is obviously a time gap.
     
     
    untitled-14.jpg
    First batch a few days after sprouting.
    untitled-37.jpg
    untitled-26.jpg
    All the 5 week olds.
    untitled-27.jpg
    Snozberry
    untitled-28.jpg
    Snozberry
    untitled-35.jpg
    The 3 week olds
    untitled-31.jpg
    A spot on one of the Alphas, that are the worst with fungus gnats.
    untitled-32.jpg
    Some tip curling on the tallest plant, an Alpha.
    untitled-33.jpg
    Some discoloration on a Snozberry.
     
    Some of the leaves were yellowing before I transplanted into the amended soil. They seem to all be a little happier now.

     
  2. Great post! And great lookin plants! And great uniformity!

    Too many greats...

    Kinda of curious... do u already have your led? I know it seems like a waste to use a powerful light with tiny plants... but seedlings really can take, and enjoy, lots of light. I sprout right under my hid.

    Sounds like your soil cycled a good long time too so u could probably start right in it.

    Not to say you're not doing an awesome job, those plants look super happy. In fact, what am i saying?! Keep it up! Hah.

    I'm tj, nice to meet ya.

    See ya around!
     
  3. Thanks tj! Right back at ya.
     
    I do already have my LED. Sure, I can throw them under there. Sounds like a good idea. I have been wondering if I'm not giving them enough light so why not use it if I have it, right?
     
    I just watered my plants, decided to water them from the bottom up since the fungus gnats are still there and I read that could help. I'm wondering if I should top dress again with neem meal and EWC, sand or maybe if I should go out and get some Gnatrol? Any help? I want to get rid of them...
     
    I also noticed that my plants in solo cups need to be transplanted. I'm going to put them right into 100% amended soil. Should I put them in 1 gallons or go straight into 3 gallons? I also have 5 gallons that I was planning on finishing in.
     
  4. Gnatrol is an effective larvicide but it won't kill adult gnats. The ewc and neem meal could help and probably won't hurt. MGB has some tips on discouraging gnats around pg 10 of "MGB's incessant organic garden" in organic journals.

    Grower's choice on container size.. you'd probably do fine with either-or. One gallon pots will work fine for a good while and are easy to work with because they are light-weight. BUT i'm also a fan of big pots and unrestricted growth lol. Bigger pots will mean watering less often too. You can always try a couple in each n see which one u think u like better. I personally went straight from small seedling pots to 5 gallon smart sips and it's working out well.

    With that said, i'd take my advice with a grain of salt, because i'm still a really new grower.

    Best of luck! I'm sure you will make a good decision.
    tj
     
  5. #5 candlecat, Dec 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
    Thanks! I'm not too worried about space since I don't plan on cramming too many plants into my small tent haha. I think I will go straight to the 3 gallons with these and see how I like it.
     
    I put them all under the LED plus one of the FL fixtures a bit ago. Will upload pics a bit later today.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. So, since I posted last I have been having some problems with yellowing leaves.
     
    On December 14, I transplanted all of my plants into 3 gallon containers. All with 100% amended soil. I watered that day and again last night.
     
    I will post pictures from before the transplant and from after.
     
    I am hoping you guys can help me out and tell me what might be wrong.
     
    Thanks!
     
    OMMP 12_20_13 (1 of 10).jpg
    Before the transplant. All green and healthy.
    OMMP 12_20_13 (2 of 10).jpg
    OMMP 12_20_13 (3 of 10).jpg
    OMMP 12_20_13 (4 of 10).jpg
     
    OMMP 12_20_13 (7 of 10).jpg
    One of the Alpha plants.
    OMMP 12_20_13 (5 of 10).jpg
    OMMP 12_20_13 (6 of 10).jpg
    One of the younger Alpha plants.
    OMMP 12_20_13 (9 of 10).jpg
    Some plants still look fine, like the Snozz.
    OMMP 12_20_13 (8 of 10).jpg
    Some browning on the edges of the Snozz.
    OMMP 12_20_13 (10 of 10).jpg
     
  7. Very nice looking set up you have!I look forward to seeing your progress. :)*Christmas Eve *DreamQueen* Harvest*"Leafy's Ever Changing Indoor Grows"
     
  8. Thanks Leafy! I have definitely learned a lot from GC so far and continue to learn more every day thanks to all you fine folks.
     
    Looking forward to switching to 12/12 soon! :)
     
    I hope these problems with the yellow leaves don't continue. Not too sure what's wrong. I hope my soil is ok.
     
  9. [quote name="candlecat" post="19202795" timestamp="1387604066"]Thanks Leafy! I have definitely learned a lot from GC so far and continue to learn more every day thanks to all you fine folks.Looking forward to switching to 12/12 soon! :)I hope these problems with the yellow leaves don't continue. Not too sure what's wrong. I hope my soil is ok.[/quote]If you are talking about the yellow on top.. I think it just means your plant is growing roots. *Christmas Eve *DreamQueen* Harvest*"Leafy's Ever Changing Indoor Grows"
     
  10. #10 waktoo, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
    Your soil mix is solid. Stop overwatering. Stop applying "teas", and stop top dressing. You have built a "water only" setup. Water your plants when the pot feels "light" when tipped up on its bottom edge. Really. For real. I'm not joking. You've built a solid soil. Water when NEEDED. Sit back and watch the magic...
     
  11.  
    Hey waktoo, thanks for the response! I actually only applied the teas twice to the soil only during the 12 weeks that it was cooking. I've never watered with anything other than water for the plants in the pots from seed until now. I don't plan on adding any more tea because my plants don't seem to want it. :)
     
    I only top dressed because I had quite a few fungus gnats that didn't want to go away with Neem oil spray. I then just top dressed with a thin layer of EWC and neem. I don't plan on top dressing any more as long as the Neem spray every 7 days keeps the gnats away.
     
     
     
    As for watering, yeah I definitely could be watering them too much. I have been trying to play it by ear and just water when they need it. Still trying to get a feel for that. I waited this last time until some leaves were actually drooping a little, the soil had pulled away from the edges of the pots and the pots felt light. To me anyway, haha. It has been anywhere from 5-9 days between each watering so far. Maybe I am giving them too much at a time.
     
    When I applied those teas, I applied them only on week 3 and week 6 of 12 (12 weeks of soil cook time.) So I used 1/2 gallon of water to brew the tea, then diluted it with 1/2 gallon of water and watered that into the 2 cu. ft. of soil.
     
     
     
     
    Which of the ingredients would you consider extras? Like I said, I don't plan on adding any teas to my potted plants. This was just my first go at making a soil and I wanted to make sure to build a solid soil. :) But yeah, I have read that just some kelp would make a good tea. I've read bad things about liquid seaweed. I've read good things about hydrolysed fish. I've read bad things about molasses, haha. You get my drift. Some people swear by things that other people scoff at.
     
    The list goes on about reading good things and bad things about each and every ingredient or piece of equipment I've decided to use in any part of this grow. It's hard to sort through all the info that is out there and make the best choice. THE TORTURED LIFE OF A NOOB.
     
    Thanks again for the responses fellas! I appreciate any and all feedback, most definitely.
     
  12. Looks great! Hopefully the yellowing clears up!
     
  13. I'm not an expert but this is what I have found. a simple brew of black strap molasses and earthworm castings is the most effective for building up the bacteria.IMHO. whenever I would try to get too fancy with brewing I would start having problems. I believe you can use up the dissolved oxygen pretty easy from over feeding an AACT with food stocks.
    less is more sometimes
    Mj
    My grow http://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1137343-1k-pipe-cleaner-LST-grow
     
  14. Hey candlecat,
     
    Congrats on going organic, and welcome to the Organic Perverts Forum! :wave:
     
    One important ingredient that's missing from your mix is compost. Besides being an excellent source of organic matter and bacteria/fungal diversity, compost is also the primary source of humus in a soil mix. Do some research on humus here in the forum, and you'll soon realize why many experienced blades say that a soil mix is only as good as the humus source.
     
    Like marvajuana said, your tea brew is a little over-the-top with ingredients. It's good you only applied it while the soil was cooking, and I would advise against brewing that same mix for application to living plants. The reason is that most of the ingredients in your tea will produce water soluble nutrients that will be immediately available to the plants, especially the alfalfa and neem, which are high in nitrogen. As mixed, that tea would likely burn your plants pretty bad.
     
    You already have those ingredients in your soil (apart from the fish hydrolysate and liquid seaweed), so what you really need is an active microherd to keep those ingredients available to the plant over the course of the grow. A simple ACT makes that happen.
     
    2 gallons of water
    A handful each of compost/EWC
    1 Tbsp of molasses
    Bubble for 24 hours and apply.
     
    The compost/EWC are your bacteria/fungus sources. The bubbling dislodges them from the compost/EWC and keeps the brew oxygenated. The molasses feeds them so they multiply. When you apply that to your soil, the hungry microherd goes to work feeding your plant.
     
    Organic rule of thumb: feed the soil, not the plant.
     
    HTH
     
    See ya...
     
  15. Solid advice PW.
     
  16. #17 candlecat, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2013
    Hi Papawayne, nice to meet ya. :wave:
     
    Thanks for the responses everyone!
     
    What you said makes total sense, I will think about that when I make teas in the future. I will grab some compost and use that next time I make a tea and add the compost to the soil the next time around. I will have to do some research on the best kind of compost to use. Any reccomendations?
     
    I'm going to switch to 12/12 in the next week or so. I'm thinking about trading my Diamond Series 300 back and getting two Diamond Series XML 350s. I know the one 300 isn't going to cut it for flower so I may as well just spend the money now and get the second light and if I'm going to buy another light I may as well spend the extra couple hundred on each to upgrade to the XMLs. The XMLs seem really nice. I considered going with Black Dog as well because the price is about the same and these two brands are really the only two I would consider buying.
     
    My plants are looking good. The yellowing is not getting worse or anything, the gnats are still gone and all the new growth looks great. The sativas are starting to get tall. I am going to have to figure out how I want to train these guys soon!
     
  17. Hope you don't mind my $0.02. :D I haven't heard anything about those LEDs in particular. And after a quick google I can see that you're ready to spend a good amount of $ on them. Disclaimer: I don't like to advertise and I am in no way affiliated with any company I am about to suggest. I do want to see that you get your $ worth investing in these new(ish) technologies.

    I buy bud pretty often from a dispensary in Co Springs that uses all LED lighting. The company that makes all of the lights they use can be found here:
    www.prosourceworldwide.com

    There is actually a video of the dispensary's grow on the website. The bud is phenomenal and the guy swears by the lights. He invested a shit ton of $ into them too.

    Another technology you might have come across is induction lighting.

    You can find induction lights here:

    www.inda-grow.com

    Or

    www.igrowlights.com

    Prices all run somewhat similar with these three companies IIRC.

    Induction lights work a lot like fluorescent lights. In a fluorescent there are gasses inside a tube that are excited by an electrode and produce light. The electrode eventually fails and the light needs replacing. An induction light has a tube filled with a gas that is excited by an electromagnet to produce light. They last for around 100,000 hrs and don't degrade too much over time.

    The inda-grow lights are made in San Diego and come with a 10 yr warranty. The iGrow has a 5 yr I think.

    That was more like $0.50.... sorry lol.
    Just a thought..

    tj
     
  18. Hey candlecat,
     
    "I will have to do some research on the best kind of compost to use. Any reccomendations?"
     
    Do your research, and then buy local if you can. Check Craig's List, and ask potentials about their ingredients and their process of composting.
     
    Avoid mushroom compost - a little research will explain why.
     
    Coast of Maine composts are generally considered to be a superior brand, if you can source them in your area.
     
    Vermicompost is superior to regular compost (it's the worms), but can be expensive and hard to find. Make it yourself if you have the means. Regular compost with the addition of EWC is a close second.
     
    Don't underestimate the value of a quality compost! It really is the heart of any organic mix.
     
    See ya...
     
  19. Your plants look adorable :love:
    I'm looking to start my first grow as well and wanna do organic. It'll be nice to watch your process from the beginning.
     

Share This Page