I was hoping to wait to start this thread when she was a little more established and I had the kinks worked out since this is my first foray into hydroponics. However, after dealing with some initial issues and talking to some knowledgeable peeps here, I decided to go ahead and start a thread to get the collective wisdom of other posters rather than bother specific people with PMs or derailing their threads. Since this is the first post in this thread, I'll give you all the down and dirty details leading up to now. You won't hurt my feelings if you don't read everything. I've grown in soil for a little while now but I've always been relegated to bag seed and CFLs. However, recently I was fortunate enough to upgrade to a tent and HID lighting. I had been researching hydro for a while (I research extensively before I start a new hobby/project) and decided to go ahead and go big or go home. Well, not big like a 10x10 room, but you know what I mean. Oh, and I also got good genetics now, no bag seed. Right now I've got seeds for pineapple chunk, lemon skunk, raspberry cough, and a bag seed that came from blue dream. Because I'm most excited for the lemon and pineapple, I decided to start with the raspberry cough in case I royally shit the bed here. SETUP: 3' x 3' x 6.5' Tent Apollo 400w MH/HPS Dimmable Digital Ballast 6†Hydrofarm 400 CFM Fan (with speed controller) Single DIY DWC Bubble Bucket (5 gal. bucket, usually has around 3.5 gallons in it) I'm a builder/tinkerer, hence why I used to grow in DIY boxes and such. I didn't like the idea of my tube, fans, etc. hanging from those flimsy poles that come with the tents. So I built a frame inside the tent with 2x4s to hang all my shit, gives me better peace of mind that I won't come home and find my cool tube shattered all over the place. I also built a little table of sorts to keep the bucket up off the floor for multiple reasons but the primary reason was to make it easier to drain and fill the res. All credit to Rumpleforeskin for the bubble bucket design. I followed his tutorial virtually to the letter. I plan to SCROG so that's what the pipe caps are on the lid for when I'm ready to SCROG. SCROG screen is already built and ready to go. Here's what the overall setup in there looks like: Off we go . . . I was germing from seed in rockwool. Seed sprouted in about 3 days and I went straight into the bucket on October 29. I use tap water because my tap water is only about 30-50 ppm. Also didn't bother with starting her on CFL or other “light†lighting. My ballast is adjustable so I started her on 25% (of 400w) MH lighting. She's now at 75%. I started her on no nutes, just 1/4 strength Rapid Start Root Enhancer by GH and 1/4 strength Sensizym. I monitor PPMs and PH every day and keep a log. Also monitor tent temps and res temps. About a week ago I started to notice some problems. First problems started with my res temps. They were well into the 70s and spiking around 77. For a quick fix, I threw a frozen water bottle in the res to bring them back down and everything was fine. However, after a few days I started noticing some yellowing on the cotyledons and wasn't experiencing nearly as much growth as I thought I would have by now. Here's a picture of the cotys yellowing: So then I thought well hell, maybe she already needs some nutes and needs some nitrogen. I'm doing Lucas for this grow as a starting point since I am new to hydro and can go from there. I also decided to nix the Sensizym for now since it's kind of pointless being that there shouldn't be any dead root matter at this point. So I started with 1/8 strength Lucas formulas of Micro and Bloom. This is when it gets weird . . . when I opened up the bucket to switch out the soup, I noticed a clear, almost like snot, goo on my airstones and all over the airlines in the bucket. Here's what it looked like: After talking to another poster, I think the culprit may have been the frozen bottle in the res. I didn't clean the bottle and I'm thinking I introduced some bacteria to the res. No problem. I drained the res completely, cleaned it out with bleach, and put fresh soup in with Rapid Start, and 1/8 strength Lucas nutes. Also, the weather has turned colder here now so I don't have to worry too much about res temps now. Yesterday I noticed very progressive yellowing on the cotys, and fan leaves so I may have burned her a little. So now I decided to go back to basics. I changed the soup again last night and now she's running on nothing but plain ole ph'd H2O. I shoot for 5.8 ph and that gives me a little buffer up and down. Also, the top two smaller leaves on top of the fans are curled straight down. Here's the yellowing: And here you can see the curling I am talking about: Notwithstanding the curling and yellowing, the little girl is strong and rigid and seems healthy. Also, the humidity is way too low in the tent right now around 30%. I put some standing buckets of water in the tent to try and raise the humidity. And I put a clear plastic container over the net pot to hopefully increase the humidity directly around and on the seedling. I've also started water the net pot directly each day with water from the res while she's still establishing roots. Once I start to see roots out the net pot I'll quit watering it every day. She's definitely growing, just at a very, very slow rate. She's drinking water, but again, at a very, very slow rate. I've also upgraded my air pump. The pump I have now is rated for like 10 gallons and I have two airstones. I ordered a new pump rated for 40-60 gallons (should be at my house today) and am adding two more airstones for a total of four (4). That way, even if my res temps do run into the 70s, I'll have plenty of air pumping into the soup. Other than that, I think that covers about everything and brings you up to speed. Sorry for the long ass dissertation, but I wanted the knowledgeable ones who help me out to know everything possible so they can give me an adequate assessment. I really want success on my first hydro grow out the gate. So hopefully with this thread I can get some good help to guide me along the way. Thanks for stopping in. Looking forward to learning more along the way with all the great help here.
Subbed! Im doing a 3 plant dwc 600w mh/hps. Watching yours shall be fun, wont have any advise that you havent read before tho lol. Same boat as you ny friend!
Welcome, brother! I'm all ears for anything. We can all learn a thing or two! Let's grow some meds! Looking forward to following your grow as well!
I'm happy to report that I think giving fresh soup going back to the basics of plain old ph'd water did the trick. She's already looking better. Well, it was either the fresh, plain soup, the humidity dome I put on the seedling, or a combination of both. Just in case anyone is wondering, here is the "humidity dome" I am using. Nothing more than a tupperware turned upside down. I usually take it off for a while in the evening when I get home and open the tent to let her breathe. And here's the best part. Look at the comparison pics here. In just under 24 hours, those small leaves up top that were curled over like a boomerang have already perked up some. And she's starting to get some color back in her fan leaves. It's hard to tell in this pic, but I saw it this morning. And she's getting a little taller too. So I'm hoping that she's out of the woods for now. Nothing much else to report right now. PH has been pretty steady. My meter was off the other night so I had to calibrate. I think I've decided I'm going to do "equipment maintenance" once a week, probably on Sunday nights. Just so I calibrate and clean my equipment once a week to keep things in check. Also got my new air pump in yesterday. I will be installing that tonight and pumping plenty more O2 in there. Have a great weekend, peeps. Keep calm and grow on.
When you put the water bottle in the res did you leave the plastic label on? Or leave the sticky glue on it? Setup looks good ill keep checking in every now and then!
I did leave the label on. Didn't even think about that! You thinking some of the glue from the label leeched into the soup? Very possible. Good lookin out, it hadn't even occurred to me!
Plant is looking better and better each day. I really think going back to basics and just doing ph'd water was the trick. The cotys are still fairly yellow as are the first set of fan leaves. But I have new growth over that and it looks much better. I got the new pump installed yesterday and added two more airstones for a total of four. I'm using a 60 gallon air pump now instead of the 10 gallon pump I started with. When I emptied the res to install the new air stones and lines, I cleaned out the bucket well with bleach just in case there was any residual crap in there from the goo problem I had a little while back. I'm still keeping the humidity dome over the seedling until I start to see roots coming out of the net pot. Here's some picture updates... In this next pic, it's hard to see well but if you look closely, the very tips of the newest green fan leaves on top look burnt or brown and crispy. I'm thinking/hoping that's just residual issues and it'll clear up: Everything else is going well. I was chasing ph like a MF'er last night. I kept adding ph down and adding ph down and it would come down a couple points, come down a couple points, then BOOM it bottomed out down to 4.3, so then I had to bring it back up. PH is such a pain in the ass. I wish it wasn't so fluid. If I had the money and the means I would set up an automatic ph monitor that adds up and down to keep it where I want it. I'm sure they exist but not feasible for a small homegrower like myself. Thanks for stopping by. Keep calm and grow on.
As you know, if you have been following this thread, this is not only my first hydro grow, but my first time using HID lighting. Right now my light is about 18-20 inches away from the plant. That's mainly because it isn't stretching right now and with my current ventilation setup, I can't get it any closer unless I stack something under the bucket to raise it up. I know I don't want it too close and burn the plant. Right now the MH is on 75%. Will probably bump it to full monty next week or so. But last night when I was fucking with the res and ph I decided to see just how hot the cool tube was. It wasn't. In fact, I could put my hand on the glass of the tube under the light and keep it there without burning my hand. Is this normal?? Maybe MH just doesn't get as hot as HPS? Or maybe the 400 CFM fan at 100% keeps it that cool? Just curious as to what others had to say.
hi mate, I saw your request on another thread. that goo you had is anaerobic bacteria, its not from you introducing it, there is bacteria everywhere, you can't avoid it getting in to the res. you need to make the res inhabitable or at least as harsh as possible. what you also need to do is provide as much oxygen to the roots as you can. thankfully these two things are easily accomplished by blasting air through the nutrient solution. I recommend 1 litre of air per minute for every 2 litres of nutrient solution, but if you can put more through go for it. More oxygen = More growth. the yellowing you were getting was also from lack of air in my opinion. I wouldn't worry about the humidity, 30% is fine. air around the leaves need to be constantly moving for the plants to be able to transpire "breath". so I believe your better off removing that cover. at this early stage a 20 watt CFL would provide more than enough light for the plant to grow to its full potential. if your pH meter needs calibrating every week its faulty. you should be able to go a year without any creep at all. have a look at my blue cheese DWC journal, you may find it helps a bit. do you have an ec/ppm yet? you will need one for when you start adding nutrients so you can see if you have your nutrient solution the correct strength Test the EC/ppm of the nutrient solution every day and write it down. If the figure is rising, then the solution is too strong so add more water. If the figure is falling, then the solution is too weak so add more nutrients.
GG, thanks for dropping by, brother. And more importantly, thanks for giving me an answer on the goo! I have a TDS meter and I check it everyday even though she's only drinking ph'd water right now. I keep pretty copious notes on my spreadsheet and check/adjust ph and temps almost everyday unless I'm out of town a day or two. I will definitely leave the dome off now. Thanks for clearing that up. I was worried about her not being able to breathe so I was at least taking it off at night and when I got home from work in the afternoons. So I need to do the math, and I can't do math when I'm stoned, but based on what you said re: air pumps, I could use a bigger pump. Damnit! I just upgraded to the one I'm on thinking it would be plenty big. Regardless, it's still much bigger and better than the puny ass 10 gallon pump I started with. But oh well that's my fault for not researching it deeper. I'm gonna check out your DWC cheese thread when I get home on the laptop. Thanks for the excellent advice as always. Keep calm and grow on.
in a 5 gallon (20 litres) res I recommend at least 10 litres per minute. am I right in saying your running two air pumps? what are the LPM on those two?
Negative on the two pumps. I'm running one Tetra Whisper 60 gallon pump. It's got two outlets on it so I split those two lines with T-valves to have four lines going to four stones. Allegedly, they pump 2.6 lpm. I say allegedly bc that's what I saw on some site when I looked it up. It doesn't say on the box. But when I feet home I will double check the insert that came with it and see if it says. Another question. You said I need 20 lpm for the five gallon res. But with the height of the net pot and where I want my levels, I usually only run about 3.5 gallons of soup in the res. so shouldn't it be 14 lpm? Or are you saying calculate it by total res size and not the amount of soup you're pumping the air into? Thanks a ton for the help.
Make sure your meter is functioning correctly. I was researching meters and I read alot of ppl had problems with false readings and shit.
Preciate that, brother. I totally agree. These things can be finnicky. I can usually tell if it's off so then I recalibrate it.
That's you problem right there!! Look, you need to aerate the water/nutrients WHEN THERE ARE ROOTS IN THE WATER/NUTRIENTS...... The rule of thumb is 1L of air per 1 gal of water..... I use a Whisper 10 taped to a 5gal bucket with a 6" net pot.... You have to understand, the cotyledons (rounded seed cracker leaves) feed the seedling until it can get roots into the soil... SO when they yellow it's time to feed..... How I do it...... Sprouts get water only for the first week.... Week 1-2 they get around 300ppm of just NPK base nutrients.... Week 2-3 they get 600-800ppm with some b-vitamins, and mycorrhizae added in the soup.... Week 3-4 they getting 1000-1100ppm still using b-vitamins, and mycorrhizae..... That's how I do it and if you look @ my past grows, this is not uncommon for me.... Snapped just for you.... lol You need to feed them and stop worrying about what's in the bucket because that's NOT affecting the plant because it does not even have any damn roots in the water yet, so ask yourself, WTF does it matter what's in the bucket as long as you have 100% RH in there, you're good.......... Matter fact, the first week and into the second I water from the top, and what's in the bucket I do NOT CARE, until the day a root gets into that water/nutrients, it does NOT MATTER what it is or what the level of the O2 is......... I mix a gallon, water from the top 2-4 times a day, what's in the bucket, as it fills, that gets dumped... When the roots start getting to the water, THEN I'm going to maintain water level/ TDS, and pH, but by then we have a healthy plant....... FEED IT already!! lol
It doesn't have to be that exact. Basically the more air the better, I guess there must be a maximum amount, an amount that if you went higher you wouldn't get any more benefit. I have never got to that amount so I don't knoe what that is. The noise would probably drive you crazy before the plants stopped seeing a benefit. This applies to grown on very healthy plants. Personally I much prefer to fill the reservoir right up so all your roots are in the water and make sure it has enough air blasting through it. You can't really go wrong then when it comes to water and air. I would be giving that plant an EC of about 0.30 at that stage and watching to see if it uses more nutes or more water than that. And then adjust accordingly
Yeah, I question weather this guy knows WTF he is talking about......... This is an image from his latest grow and in my opinion is the sign of a "noob know it all"..........
Jake, thanks for dropping in. Always nice to have another knowledgeable, experienced grower pop in for advice. Sometimes I get so wrapped up in the particulars that I miss the big picture. Occam's Razor, I guess. You're absolutely right about top feeding with nutes and I didn't even think about that. Because I didn't start top feeding until I had already tried nutes, thought I burned her, then went to straight ph water. No worries, she's still hanging in there and about to get a healthy dose of nutes tonight. I'm going to start at 1/4 strength and go from there. Thanks for dropping some truth on me! ETA: actually, I'll start with 1/4 strength and see what the ppms are and go from there.
Welp, change of plans. I just checked her and she's got a root out the net pot. When I left town Wednesday evening there was nothing. Tonight, I've got one little healthy looking root hanging about two inches out the pot. So I need to do a res change and put some food in the soup. But it's almost lights out time and I've got guests coming in tomorrow and will be tailgating/football #FUCKCLEMSON all day tomorrow so it'll have to wait until Sunday. I'm going to go ahead and top feed her nutes now and tomorrow a few times just until I can change the soup Sunday. Hopefully she'll hang on another 36 hours or so and she'll be good.